Reds 2017

[Train Without a Station]

Much of what you say I agree with RH, but that last paragraph you're re-writing history.

Link won a title in 2011, then the team finished 3rd (6th overall) and 5th (overall).

You're view on Rennie ignores that after their 2012-2013 back to back effort, the Chiefs dropped to 5th for both the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

They certainly sit equal 1st today, but their remaining games sees them face off with the Crusaders and Highlanders again. Both teams they sit on equal first with.

It's very possible they won't be looking so strong come the end of the final round.

 

[RedsHappy]

A few media outlets are today talking up the Reds swapping Goro for Quade for next year. Both have options on their contracts for next year and that neither franchise appear excited by the prospect of signing them for another year. Goro doesn't really fit the Reds and Quade doesn't really fit Toulon.

Seems like a damn fine trade to me!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...n/news-story/a6a6255889431207b24d08d5f899d541

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/toulon-trade-quade-cooper-transfer-swap/

More than most, QC (Quade Cooper) is shown over his years to be a very coach-dependent player.

It was only really ever under Link and, importantly, Link's brilliant 2010-11 total coaching group, that QC (Quade Cooper) truly shone bright and consistently so. His particular genius was liberated by both coaching quality and, critically, team design and selection all around him.

QC (Quade Cooper) needs the right type of team near him, especially in the backs as Ioane and Genia and Davies were for him, to support and enhance his strengths and then a HC that wants to play a form of game and select a form of team to suit QC (Quade Cooper)'s particular strengths. Without these ingredients IMO QC (Quade Cooper)'s confidence sinks, the mistakes increase, he pushes himself far too recklessly and often for miracle moments that rarely come off, and so the goodness of him falls away.

I'd predict now that under say M O'Connor as attack coach, QC (Quade Cooper) would not be anything like his best. There would be problems and trouble aplenty.

 

[RedsHappy]

Much of what you say I agree with RH, but that last paragraph you're re-writing history.

Link won a title in 2011, then the team finished 3rd (6th overall) and 5th (overall).

You're view on Rennie ignores that after their 2012-2013 back to back effort, the Chiefs dropped to 5th for both the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

They certainly sit equal 1st today, but their remaining games sees them face off with the Crusaders and Highlanders again. Both teams they sit on equal first with.

It's very possible they won't be looking so strong come the end of the final round.

Mate, I didn't say they'd necessarily win this year, but I would say that some of the Chiefs' 2016 play is extraordinarily good, of very high calibre and terrific to watch. Better even than the heights of their 2012 and 2013 years. The standard of selections, team skills, all-court rugby, intensity and on-field leadership is IMO some of best you will ever see on a rugby filed. And the team is not stacked full of ABs either.

Going back to back over those 2 years as they did, then a bit of a lull but still playing some very good rugby, and now reaching these levels in 2016 reflects very highly upon this team's coaches. (Mind you, Rennie's close relationship with and use of Wayne Smith - one of the greatest-ever rugby assistant coaches - has of course been a key factor in the rebuilding of the Chiefs.)

 

[TOCC]

Crusaders have one of the best, if not the best rugby system in the world. Blackadder is no doubt a good coach, but he also benefits from a development system(from juniors to ITM Cup) which is superior to anything we have in Australia, coaching at all levels is superior to what we have in QLD, he gets. All of these benefit Blackadder and his coaching record and that's why I remain uncommitted to the idea that throwing everything at Blackadder would get the returns that we all hope for.

Is there a coach who has regularly overachieved with the squad he controlled? Eddie Jones and Japan's performance in the RWC is one, but surely he isn't the only coach.


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[RugbyReg]

Great news:

St.George Queensland Reds centre Samu Kerevi has signed a two-year contract with Queensland Rugby Union, which will see him remain at Ballymore until 2018.

 

[Train Without a Station]

RH, you said:

"his Chiefs of 2016's vintage are even better than those of 2012's".

I heavily dispute that. They were back to back champions in 2012 and 2013 picking up 8 and 10 bonus points in those seasons.

At best they will be an equal team of those years after a lull, at worst they will be more of a 2014-2015 Chiefs teams, which is still good, but does not at all align with your view of this constant linear improvement. At least not in the context of their competition.

For all you want to say about how terrible the Reds were in 2012 and 2013, they overcame injuries to key personnel to still qualify for the finals with similar results to the Chiefs in 2014 and 2015.

Whilst the quality of play is certainly important, results are the bottom line, and if the Reds were able to overcome obstacles and win less attractively when they lacked the personnel to do so attractively, I see that as an achievement by the coaching staff, not this great negative you seem to think it is.

 

[Sully]

Listen no one's a bigger fan of quade than me (seriously, is the best player of the professional era the world has seen), but is he in a position to know who was really responsible for what?

Yes

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[emuarse]

For 2017, I would like to see a Pickles, QC (Quade Cooper) pairing with Karevi at O/C to feed off QC (Quade Cooper).
But who would be the ideal I/C with the above combination?

 

[TheKing]

For 2017, I would like to see a Pickles, QC (Quade Cooper) pairing with Karevi at O/C to feed off QC (Quade Cooper).
But who would be the ideal I/C with the above combination?

Godwin! Physical distributor who can tackle

So the debate to look for an external coach rages on.

What if we turn our eye to the internal?

Jason Gilmore took the Queensland U20s to an undefeated championship this year. That team had plenty of players we could expect to see popping up in the Reds in years to come - if it's time to clear out the old guard, wouldn't Gilmore be a logical choice?

Brothers high-powered attack from 2015 has gotten even better in 2016 under the stewardship of Carl Marshall, despite the loss of rightful MVP Sam Greene for all but two games this season. They've scored seven four-try bonus points in eight games. Marshall has also coached the Queensland Schoolboys for the last couple of years, so he'd have a great eye on the pathway coming through.

University's Mick Heenan took Premier Rugby's youngest team (average age app. 20-21) to the Finals last year, and this year the team is even younger. They're just as good, and are $2.75 favourites to take out the Premiership. Would he be worth a look as a potential Reds coach given his track record of producing well organised young teams?

Rob Seib's Sunnybank are always there or thereabouts despite plenty of player turnover. Sean Hedger from Bond has Super Rugby experience at the Rebels, and he's done good things with the resources he has on the Coast.

 

[topgun]

Isn't Taefu an inside centre?

 

[TOCC]

TheKing I actually think the step up from Premier Grade straight to Super Rugby is too great for coaches, it's a huge step for players but at least players have other players to learn from, coaching can be a lonely position.

Even with the NRC as a development tool, it's still a big leap.


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[Waterboyrugby]

For 2017, I would like to see a Pickles, QC (Quade Cooper) pairing with Karevi at O/C to feed off QC (Quade Cooper).
But who would be the ideal I/C with the above combination?

Duncan Paia'aua is developing into a class 12, he has been in top form for Norths. With another season of NRC, I'd like to think he will be given a shot to start.

Will he be a good fit w/ QC (Quade Cooper)? I don't know. He's a 2nd playmaker who offers more than a traditional smash & bash 12 like Taefu. He has all the skills and will still provide solid defence. He is a weapon and will flourish in the right setup and gameplan (as he has @ Norths).

 

[liquor box]

I think QC (Quade Cooper) was at his most lethal when he had the option of an inside ball to Digby.

I dream of Kerevi, Hunt, Taefu, Magnay and Nabuli running off QC (Quade Cooper)'s shoulder. Hunt the 95kg runt would be the smallest.

We really need a kicking coach for general play as this is one of our biggest weaknesses.

 

[topgun]

He's a 2nd playmaker who offers more than a traditional smash & bash 12 like Taefu.n (as he has @ Norths).

From what I saw of Taefu at the Rams in 2014 he can play ball as much as he can bullock. I can remember for some reason they always had him on the bench, and as soon as they'd bring him on at 50 mins he would light it up, offloading and outrunning the opposition. I didn't pay much attention to him at Brisbane city but if you guys don't want him I'd have him at the Tahs and Force. I think he's quality.

 

[TOCC]

From what I've seen(which admittedly isn't a whole lot) Taefu can offload but he isn't a distributor, he has a decent short pass and can offload In traffic but his long pass is pretty average..

I'm with Waterboy, I really like what brief glimpses I've seen of Paia'aua this season, I still think the best the Reds have looked was in the trial with Duncan at 12.

Duncan was thrown to the wolves in the first season before he was ready and looked average, but that was poor coaching and player management more then anything. I think he has done well to toil away in the QPR and improve his play.


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[topgun]

They had the kid at 10 though? pretty hard to direct attack in Super Rugby when you're that green. I agree he's looked pretty handy in his time this year. I just think Taefu could be a good fit elsewhere if he's in the shadows in QLD

 

[Aussie D]

There was a mention in yesterday's Tele (Payto and Panda) that Matt Taylor was the front runner for the Reds job. Anyone with inside info to confirm or deny the truth of that snippet?

 

[Strewthcobber]

There was a mention in yesterday's Tele (Payto and Panda) that Matt Taylor was the front runner for the Reds job. Anyone with inside info to confirm or deny the truth of that snippet?

His name has certainly started appearing in the forums over the last week or so.

I do wonder what an assistant coach of a Scottish Pro12 side offers above one of the current guys (who haven't shown enough to get it either). At least MOC has some head coach experience.

 

[TOCC]

Toulon can take Goro in 2017, I don't see any role at the Reds for him


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[Highlander35]

His name has certainly started appearing in the forums over the last week or so.

I do wonder what an assistant coach of a Scottish Pro12 side offers above one of the current guys (who haven't shown enough to get it either). At least MOC has some head coach experience.

He's a Queenslander, who was part of a Queensland Championship winning Season, was part of the Glasgow team that's achieved a championship and 4 of their 6 back to back playoffs appearances, and part of a Scotland team that made the World Cup Quarters and was a bees dick from a Semi, coming out of a tricky pool.

Clearly he's not the ideal option (where a Blackadder or a Fisher would be preferable), but he's hardly less deserving than MOC or Stiles. I'm hoping he sticks around, regardless of whether he's part of Toonie's team in the Navy and White or he replaces Toonie in the Black and Baby blue,