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Reds 2017

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Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Braveheart81 said:
You could also argue that the Reds need more experienced heads, particularly as they are losing Greg Holmes, Liam Gill, Saia Fainga'a and Ant Fainga'a.

If Moore only has one really strong year left in him before Ready surpasses him, is that a bad thing for the Reds?
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Well I don't know if they need more experienced heads. Moore has shown a tendency to be a bit of a loose canon, more so than a steadingly influence. Anyway whats done is done and Ready had a shit night last night.

What we need are some fucking skills, particularly in the backs and all the players to put in a better effort
 
swingpass

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
so if you were QC (Quade Cooper) sitting in the stands last night, where would you go next year Reds or Rebels ? who has the more [potential in the back division and more importantly who has the forwards to provide go forward ball. tough decision (money aside)
 
Sully

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I wonder how much Homers send off might effect his decision?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk
 
Simon.

Simon.

Bob Loudon (25)
Tip said:
It seems like he came in and tried to put his "mark" on the Reds. The mid tier players left in droves (Lucas, Lance, Harris) and we're left with zero Super experience in key positions. Now we're running around like headless chooks.
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I'd be interested to know how much of this is Cordingley's doing and how much is Carmichael's. Carmichael had a marketer's approach to recruitment, he seemed to be more focused on big-name signings as a way to get bums on seats to try to turn around the QRU's financial situation - guys like JOC (James O'Connor), Goromaru, Karmichael Hunt.

JOC (James O'Connor) and Hunt in particular put a big dent in the salary cap and that in turn puts immense pressure on the mid-tier players you refer to. Particularly when those mid-tiers are worth pretty big money to other clubs like the Rebels and Force. The mid-tiers leave and then the Reds have to fill in the blanks with U20s who in general aren't ready for Super Rugby yet.

I firmly believe that a team of solid mid-tier players will in general beat a team that's got two superstars and then a bunch of novices. Even if the superstars are still in top form (and neither JOC (James O'Connor) nor Hunt were) they are still going to struggle in a poorly performing team.

So they went completely the wrong way about it IMO. Superstars are not a panacea. You need to get the fundamentals right, hang on to the dependable mid-tiers, sign exciting new talent (which the Reds are actually pretty good at doing) and keep it (which they are BAD at doing), and get good coaches and support staff in place.

Results will improve, morale will build. Success breeds success, and then you'll find the bums start returning to seats of their own accord.
 
Ignoto

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
Simon. said:
I'd be interested to know how much of this is Cordingley's doing and how much is Carmichael's. Carmichael had a marketer's approach to recruitment, he seemed to be more focused on big-name signings as a way to get bums on seats to try to turn around the QRU's financial situation - guys like JOC (James O'Connor), Goromaru, Karmichael Hunt.
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Carmichael was also at the Reds from 2009, so I don't buy into this whole "marketers approach" recruitment. JOC (James O'Connor) was a gamble that could have paid off if he was interested in staying in Aus rugby AND was actually fit. Goro was an adequate back up and would have been an ok fullback had Hunt not been shifted there.

With the success the Reds had behind them, they (the recruiters) were entitled to take a gamble on or or two recruits. However, due to shit preparations from the coaching department and other failures in player retention, the gambles failure was amplified.
 
dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
Ignoto, I respect your thinking but just dont agree.

You start with a 2009 time scenario to ultimately judge that they were entitled to one or two smokeys. But no. JOC (James O'Connor), Hunt and Goro came much later and well into the debacle that was the refusal to accept RG had to go.

They had no entitlement and didnt even get marketing 101 started. At that time.
 
RugbyReg

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Ignoto said:
Carmichael was also at the Reds from 2009, so I don't buy into this whole "marketers approach" recruitment. JOC (James O'Connor) was a gamble that could have paid off if he was interested in staying in Aus rugby AND was actually fit. Goro was an adequate back up and would have been an ok fullback had Hunt not been shifted there.
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I think Simon is pretty accurate. Remember Carmichael came in in 2009 knowing bugger all about rugby and had the experienced Ewen McKenzie as coach.

But by the time of those signings (Hunt and Goromaru etc) Graham was coach and Carmichael a little more comfortable in his position. This is supported by the rumour I heard that Graham never wanted Graham and the signing came straight from Head Office.
 
Simon.

Simon.

Bob Loudon (25)
The other thing you have to consider about 2009 is they were building off a very low base and nobody was expecting the Reds to be filling Suncorp.

By 2014, attendances were falling in line with the position on the ladder, and Carmichael as CEO would have been under pressure to reverse that trend. IMO it's that pressure that prompted the shift in marketing strategy towards panacea players and failing to retain those core mid-tier players lacking "star power" when the focus should have been on the organisation taking a long hard look at itself.

I can't say for sure that's how it happened, of course. But it's indisputable that we lost a hell of a lot of core players while paying too much for underperforming high-profile players and I suspect declining attendances were the driver for it.
 
neilc

neilc

Bob Loudon (25)
RugbyReg said:
I think Simon is pretty accurate. Remember Carmichael came in in 2009 knowing bugger all about rugby and had the experienced Ewen McKenzie as coach.

But by the time of those signings (Hunt and Goromaru etc) Graham was coach and Carmichael a little more comfortable in his position. This is supported by the rumour I heard that Graham never wanted Graham and the signing came straight from Head Office.
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Reg, when you said "I heard that Graham never wanted Graham", was it Goro that you were talking about? So it was a marketing push rather than a coaching choice?
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Stiles seems to be firming for the HC position.

Sounds like The Silver Fox may head to the old Dart.

Announcement must be soon, whoever it ends up being
 
Simon.

Simon.

Bob Loudon (25)
Stiles is the lesser of the two home-grown evils for sure. Particularly if MOC being passed over results in his heading to the Force, and requires the Reds to get a new backs coach.
 
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