Reds 2017

[The torpedo]

Define average?? Assuming you mean average and still one of the top 2 flyhalf in Australia.

Well next years starting flyhalves for AUS teams (hypothetically, ranked from best to worst):

1. Tahs - Foley
2. Brumbies - Lealiifano
3. Rebels - Debreczeni
4. Force - Grant/Lance

I would put Quade in probably at number 3, simply because he hasn't played a lot of rugby (most of it has been off the bench).

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well next years starting flyhalves for AUS teams (hypothetically, ranked from best to worst):

1. Tahs - Foley
2. Brumbies - Lealiifano
3. Rebels - Debreczeni
4. Force - Grant/Lance

I would put Quade in probably at number 3, simply because he hasn't played a lot of rugby (most of it has been off the bench).

I would rate him ATM at 5 in Super Rugby. All others have runs on the board in 2016 in Super rugby.

Having said that he could take the Number 1 spot very easily with a few great performances. None of the other 4 have the potential to improve that dramatically

 

[Train Without a Station]

All others don't have runs on the board. The point is that Quade would likely be up there because they have not been playing good, or at all (Lance) and Quade has a long history of playing better than they currently are now.

Just being out on the park isn't "runs on the board". And not being there doesn't automatically mean you are the worst option. Otherwise Lance would be also as he's been injured for most of the season.

 

[Parse]

No I haven't. Please share what you have seen of Quade.

They only show 2 games each week, but Toulon have been heavily represented. With Quade, he hasn't been injured all season as far as I can tell. He can't hold the No.10 spot because the Toulon coach prefers stable type of play there without flamboyance ie: Taylor and now Giteau since he is back. Whoever thought Quade would usurp Giteau at Toulon after their success in previous years would have to have had rocks in their head.
Quade has been mainly playing 15 and rotating with other players for most of the time. While he has not shown the flair of the 2011 season he has done some good stuff in the games he has played. Toulon are a big team, they like big forwards and big forward play and set piece dominance, something they showed in last week's semi-final win over Montpelier (Jake White coached team - ie: Sth Africa + Brumbies players), so the high attacking, partly risky style like Quade plays is not enjoyed by their coach.
Quade has not been seen in the finals series, which might have something to do with him telling them he isn't taking up the option for the second year of the contract.
Unfortunately Eurosport shows the main matches so all those lesser games where Toulon score 40 or 50 points and guys like Quade and JOC (James O'Connor), Habana etc stand out aren't shown for me to see. One only sees those matches in the 30min highlight show each week.

 

[Scoey]

Leroy has been called into the Wallabies squad as injury cover for Ben McCalmann. Must be a decent shot for at least a bench spot you'd imagine. Will be good to see what he can do if he gets a run.

 

[dru]

All others don't have runs on the board. The point is that Quade would likely be up there because they have not been playing good, or at all (Lance) and Quade has a long history of playing better than they currently are now.

Just being out on the park isn't "runs on the board". And not being there doesn't automatically mean you are the worst option. Otherwise Lance would be also as he's been injured for most of the season.

Just in terms of how many minutes Quade has played at 10 in the last 12 months places him at no 5 for me, were he here right now. This doesnt compute to QC (Quade Cooper) being the "worst option", it's just a common sense check that we would need to give him some consistent game time.

Train, your warning - about the possibility of Cheika dropping Quade into the WB squad immediately - is germane. I wonder at the possibility of him being asked to play 12 with Beale out. Not comfortable with this thinking.

We've also seen that the players around him have to gel - think he was slowed down a bit at the RWC Wallaby B team due to lacking combinations. And we see how much the coach impacts his ability. Consider Toulon and Deans v Link and actually Cheika.

I'm OK with the suggestion that Quade would be ranked, at this point, as #5 10 in Aus. Not sure Cheika would see it that way, but for now I hope he does.

None of that should be mistaken on my part for anything other than total enthusiasm for his return.

PS wish we were hearing more around the HC deliberations.

 

[USARugger]

Train, your warning - about the possibility of Cheika dropping Quade into the WB squad immediately - is germane. I wonder at the possibility of him being asked to play 12 with Beale out. Not comfortable with this thinking.

I strongly, strongly doubt we will see Cheika attempt this again.

 

[Scoey]

I strongly, strongly doubt we will see Cheika attempt this again.

I was going to ask if I remembered that being trialed before. When was that and who was it against again?

He played predominantly 12 for the Reds for the first couple of seasons I'm sure so perhaps the experiment under Chieka just needed a bit more time?

 

[USARugger]

I was going to ask if I remembered that being trialed before. When was that and who was it against again?

He played predominantly 12 for the Reds for the first couple of seasons I'm sure so perhaps the experiment under Chieka just needed a bit more time?

I'm about to head off to bed for the night but I'll try to remember and check in on it in the morning.

Quade can't defend or straighten the line well enough to really play 12 in my opinion. Even Beale has the acceleration that allows him to straighten and hit a half-gap or outside shoulder when has has to (even if his ball security is crap a lot of the time). Quade still seems to have the tendency to dance into a hole rather than straighten and take contact when nothing is really on.

 

[Hawko]

Well next years starting flyhalves for AUS teams (hypothetically, ranked from best to worst):

1. Tahs - Foley
2. Brumbies - Lealiifano
3. Rebels - Debreczeni
4. Force - Grant/Lance

I would put Quade in probably at number 3, simply because he hasn't played a lot of rugby (most of it has been off the bench).

Based on this year's performances (excluding Grant who is poo) it would be:

1. Foley
2. Lance
3. Lilo (average performances at best)
4. Debrecezni (even the club supporters want his head)
5. McIntyre (who has been absolutely awful)

 

[lou75]

Quade's officially activated the exit clause from yr 2 of his Toulon contract.
I guess he's back unless the rebels poach him - For better or worse

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...s/news-story/13c65e72490cb34a25c479be309eb7da

funny you should mention the Rebels and QC (Quade Cooper) in the same sentence. I predict a lot more of QC (Quade Cooper) and Rebels in 2017, and it will be for the better!

 

[USARugger]

I was going to ask if I remembered that being trialed before. When was that and who was it against again?

He played predominantly 12 for the Reds for the first couple of seasons I'm sure so perhaps the experiment under Chieka just needed a bit more time?

Ok, looked it up.

Quade came on as a C replacement against the Argies in Mendoza and USA in Chicago. The Mendoza match was one QC (Quade Cooper) would want to forget - shaky kicking, the yellow card, no real penetration as a runner. Lots of long, looping passes to players waiting on the "train tracks". Can't really recall much of the USA match..

He didn't play well and it was pretty evident that a Foley/QC (Quade Cooper) combo just didn't function. For what it's worth I still think QC (Quade Cooper)/To'omua is our best 10/12 axis if we're looking to run two play makers. Only issue seems to be that neither have been on form/uninjured at the same time since the 2013 Spring Tour (oh, what could have been?) - and now Matty is going overseas as QC (Quade Cooper) comes home.

In terms of the capabilities of that combination the only thing I could think of changing would be to call up Naholo's witch doctor and ask him to make Matty an inch or two taller.

I think at best QC (Quade Cooper) can be a role-player at 15 in case of an injury catastrophe during a match but he really should never come anywhere near a jersey that isn't 10 or maybe 22/23.

**ESPNScrum/Espn.co.uk is an awesome place for player/match stats and history. The navigation is a little wonky but once you figure it out there's a ton of data on there that can be referred to and the databases are well set up for searching both at the player and match level**

funny you should mention the Rebels and QC (Quade Cooper) in the same sentence. I predict a lot more of QC (Quade Cooper) and Rebels in 2017, and it will be for the better!

If QC (Quade Cooper) ends up at the Rebels I will dummy spit myself to the fucking moon

 

[RugbyReg]

Hmm. I wonder if there's any merit in a backline of:

9 Frisby
10 McIntyre
11 Nabuli
12 Hunt
13 Kerevi
14 Laloifi (or whomever)
14 Quade.

- keeps Mcintyre's development going with an experienced hear at 12 and 15
- it fills a whole for us at 12 and I'm starting to feel Special K could better serve us close
- QC (Quade Cooper) can involve himself as wanted from the back but also gives 2 kicking options in the team.

Thoughts?


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[USARugger]

Would much rather have the experienced hand touching the ball 25+ times a game and leading from the front with a younger, less experienced playmaker able to choose their moments and insert themselves from deeper in the line (if that's the model we're looking at playing with).

At 28 years old, if QC (Quade Cooper) comes back to Ballymore and can be convinced to stick around it should give us just enough time to identify and properly develop a long-term 10. Even QC (Quade Cooper) wasn't a starting flyhalf until considerably later in his Super Rugby career than Jake has been asked to be.

Problem is going to be identifying the right guy (without a doubt there's still major question marks over Jake even though he has improved in some aspects, he's still way off the mark in many facets of play - Stormers match comes to mind).

The U-20's only seemed to show how far off Mason is at the moment as well. Haven't seen enough of Greene this year to really comment on him.

Two or three years of QC (Quade Cooper) being around would be a godsend in terms of providing the time, space, and mentorship to not be in a crisis with our flyhalf depth.

 

[dru]

Hmm. I wonder if there's any merit in a backline of:

9 Frisby
10 McIntyre
11 Nabuli
12 Hunt
13 Kerevi
14 Laloifi (or whomever)
14 Quade.

- keeps Mcintyre's development going with an experienced hear at 12 and 15
- it fills a whole for us at 12 and I'm starting to feel Special K could better serve us close
- QC (Quade Cooper) can involve himself as wanted from the back but also gives 2 kicking options in the team.

Thoughts?


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Presume that was QC (Quade Cooper) 15. Yes it is a thought I have had. Does Hunt want 12? Surely it would have been tested during Goro's time here? I think Hunt could be well suited to 12 and its confusing that it hasnt been tried.

We could get 4 years out of Quade and you'd really want to be sure that MacIntyre was the right longer term play.

We need to see the sort of form that QC (Quade Cooper) can muster and HC is vital.

 

[RugbyReg]

I don't think Jake Mc is the long term. I think probably Mack Mason is. But this way you could play QC (Quade Cooper) and Hunt in the same team, keep Jake Mc in to start the season and feed MM some starting time. Perhaps he could start by seasons and and RedsHappy could go off his tits because we'd have Churhie at 10,12 and 15.


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[USARugger]

Yeah if we're not looking at Jake Mac for the longer term I think keeping him at 10 while slotting QC (Quade Cooper) at 15 is a bit of a waste. Would just rather have the better play and better playmaker touching the ball more and providing the direction for the squad (QC (Quade Cooper)'s organization in the backline is just so, so far ahead of any of our current 10's I'd pick him up at the front for this alone).

Shame JJT is leaving if we're looking to fill 15.

and RedsHappy could go off his tits because we'd have Churhie at 10,12 and 15.

 

[RugbyReg]

I think QC (Quade Cooper) would still get plenty of ball in his hands and he could even get it a bit wider, where he can be very dangerous.

I understand your thoughts but until we sign a quality 12 or 15, I'm holding on to this one as my preferred lineup.

Oh, and of course, we need to sign Quade...

 

[Scrubber2050]

My main criticism of McIntyre is that he hasn't improved much at all with the number of starts he has had. At the start of the season I thought he showed real promise and with some experience he would end up being a very capable 10. That has proved not to be. How long does one persevere with a deficient "play maker"?

If Quade returns, and I hope he does, then he should take the run on 10 spot. Shit the bloke is only about 29 and has several years of top rugby left in the tank.

That gives us time to develop or uncover or source another 10 (probably not Jake) at a Super 15 level, when the time inevitably comes when QC (Quade Cooper) retires.

 

[The torpedo]

Hmm. I wonder if there's any merit in a backline of:

9 Frisby
10 McIntyre
11 Nabuli
12 Hunt
13 Kerevi
14 Laloifi (or whomever)
14 Quade.

- keeps Mcintyre's development going with an experienced hear at 12 and 15
- it fills a whole for us at 12 and I'm starting to feel Special K could better serve us close
- QC (Quade Cooper) can involve himself as wanted from the back but also gives 2 kicking options in the team.

Thoughts?


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Two right wingers? Now that's a bit left field