Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Chek has lost the plot, again...
Reds 2017
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
- Start date
- Status
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
Development isn't that linear, but I agree he's a good prospect.
Let him play Super first, ideally for the Brumbies or Rebels where he'll get time.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
I would hope to see a massive improvement in him before he generated any interest down at the Brumbies. Not impressed.
dru
David Wilson (68)
You could say the same about Stiles. And Graham. But the real idiot would be the bloke who decided to follow their w/l ratios by bringing in McGahan.
Hahaha.
No.
upthereds#!
Peter Johnson (47)
Im sure he has something valuable to say, but I don't he think should be brought in as a fulltime DOR/mentor for Stiles etc.....get someone who knows how to win.
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
How does someone who is failing as a super rugby head coach mentor someone else who is failing as a super rugby head coach into becoming a winning super rugby head coach?
I absolutely believe that there is nothing that can be gained by bringing in yet another coach with a history of failure in this competition.
Spend the money - get a successful super rugby coach by whatever means necessary.
*edit* and Munster's record of success appears independent of whether he was involved or not and isn't super rugby anyway - so hardly counts
Let's let him play club rugby first. Don't think he has done that as yet.
Thinker
Darby Loudon (17)
Being a failed Super Rugby coach suggests you have friends in the right places, not that you can coach worth a damn.
Again, as with Graham, any coach needing mentoring or such should not be coaching anywhere near Super Rugby level.
I posted back before Stiles was ever appointed that he was uniquely unqualified and had been a bust at every post. A consensus of a few here was that despite a terrible record at UQ, Japan, Force and Reds, the NRC was enough to justify his appointment*.
Coaches at this level don't suddenly figure it out. You achieve at least a little success straight away or you fail. Stiles has been at the Reds for 4 years. This is the worst of the four and in many ways the Reds worst season ever.
We can build an all-star roster all we want, until we get the right coaches in place it is all a waste of time. Reds fans of all people should appreciate that.
*It's funny that Stiles only positive in coaching career was the time in NRC and that was enough to justify giving him the HC role, but Gilmore had 2 seasons in NRC and finished with 2nd worst and worst defence, in a competition where defence isn't played. And the decision makers thought he was worthy of the defensive coach role. Really surprising that we have had our worst defensive year ever.
Again, as with Graham, any coach needing mentoring or such should not be coaching anywhere near Super Rugby level.
I posted back before Stiles was ever appointed that he was uniquely unqualified and had been a bust at every post. A consensus of a few here was that despite a terrible record at UQ, Japan, Force and Reds, the NRC was enough to justify his appointment*.
Coaches at this level don't suddenly figure it out. You achieve at least a little success straight away or you fail. Stiles has been at the Reds for 4 years. This is the worst of the four and in many ways the Reds worst season ever.
We can build an all-star roster all we want, until we get the right coaches in place it is all a waste of time. Reds fans of all people should appreciate that.
*It's funny that Stiles only positive in coaching career was the time in NRC and that was enough to justify giving him the HC role, but Gilmore had 2 seasons in NRC and finished with 2nd worst and worst defence, in a competition where defence isn't played. And the decision makers thought he was worthy of the defensive coach role. Really surprising that we have had our worst defensive year ever.
SamoanNo8
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Disappointing to see Rob Simmons being moved on at the end of the year. Yes, he hasn't had the best season, but he's been a great servant to both Qld and Australian rugby over a long period of time. IMO, a Reds player who has 112 caps to his name doesn't deserve to go out on such terms. A leader and an experienced member of the Reds squad - Simmons still has much to offer as a mentor to the younger locks. He's only 28 as well.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
Agreed, but we don't know what's happened behind closed doors.
I'd hope the Reds quietly said "look elsewhere" and he chose for the news to be delivered this way.
What would you do instead?
They already have Tui, Rodda and Douglas committed past this season.
They would be insane to let Tui or Rodda go in order to keep Simmons.
Thinker
Darby Loudon (17)
You need 4 locks. I was only last year we were relying on part-timers. All 4 have started at some stage this year and we have been very lucky with injuries.
Douglas has failed to reach the heights of the 2015 RWC in a Reds jersey. I like Tui a lot but he is raw and a mistake machine. Rodda hasn't been seen enough to fully evaluate.
I'm not saying I'd keep Simmons over the others, but I don't think you'd be letting one go to keep him, esp if one is Rodda.
Thinker
Darby Loudon (17)
Here's an easy way to assess the Reds HP department.
Let's, hypothetically, of course, say that people in the organisation cared about the performances of the team. It's pretty clear that they don't, but we can pretend.
Let's say they had skin in the game.
Let's say that Cordingley, Baker and the rest of the pigs at the trough only got paid if the Reds win the competition.
Otherwise, their salary goes to reimburse members.
Would Stiles still be the head coach?
What if Stiles only got paid if they won the competition?
Would Gilmore, Arnold and Thorn still be around?
Of course not!
It's not to say a better coach would win the competition, but the fact that these coaches wouldn't be there if the decision-makers were exposed to a downside tells you everything you need to know about the place.
Let's, hypothetically, of course, say that people in the organisation cared about the performances of the team. It's pretty clear that they don't, but we can pretend.
Let's say they had skin in the game.
Let's say that Cordingley, Baker and the rest of the pigs at the trough only got paid if the Reds win the competition.
Otherwise, their salary goes to reimburse members.
Would Stiles still be the head coach?
What if Stiles only got paid if they won the competition?
Would Gilmore, Arnold and Thorn still be around?
Of course not!
It's not to say a better coach would win the competition, but the fact that these coaches wouldn't be there if the decision-makers were exposed to a downside tells you everything you need to know about the place.
What could you realistically offer Simmons though?
He's going to need a big Super Rugby contract to keep him there given he's also dropping off from getting ARU top up money.
You're going to be looking to re-sign Tui, Rodda and Douglas in a year's time. If Tui continues to progress he could be a capped Wallaby in massive demand.
I don't think the Reds could reasonably offer Simmons more than a one year contract without jeopardising their chances of securing their other locks in a year. They'd most likely be paying well above the odds of what they should spend on a lock who is on the bench or outside the 23 if things play out the way they envisage.
Clearly you need 4 locks but you can't pay the fourth one $200k.
The alternative is paying $60k to Harry Hocking.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Yeah, you'd expect Hocking to come in as a fourth lock. Sad to see Simmons go, but that's a fact of professional sporting life. It's rare to get a 1 club man these days.
Another fact of professional sporting life is sacking under performing coaches, a fact the Reds seem to be missing for the last few years. Whatever happens, if they don't get a new defence coach.....well, I don't know what to say that's not already been said.
Another fact of professional sporting life is sacking under performing coaches, a fact the Reds seem to be missing for the last few years. Whatever happens, if they don't get a new defence coach.....well, I don't know what to say that's not already been said.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
JON had massive amounts of experience and do you still think he has something valuable to add.
Then again a study of what not to do and examination of why and how a system produces consistent failure and lack of development is valuable. So yes, McGahan has a LOT to offer.
Beer Baron
Phil Hardcastle (33)
- Status