Reds 2017

[Braveheart81]

I agree re CFS but do we need another promising U20? How many of those have worked out for us recently?

Let's chase the best person available for the funds.

You've already got Magnay, Perese and Ngamanu in the squad who are all outside backs and two of which are U20 this year and the other one was last year.

I definitely agree that you should be looking for someone more experienced (or in a different position) if you're not re-signing CFS.

 

[Scrubber2050]

CFS has never really repaid the Reds for their loyalty to him (in the sense of taking the field due to chronic injuries) over several years (although he did have a good year representing at Wallaby level). He really should be let go, probably head overseas and get his game right.

Aiden T was finally let go after about seven years (think he only played 4 or 5 games in that time) and now is playing pretty well for the Brumbies.

I, also, would rather see a young promising player or 2 being promoted

 

[liquor box]

You've already got Magnay, Perese and Ngamanu in the squad who are all outside backs and two of which are U20 this year and the other one was last year.

I definitely agree that you should be looking for someone more experienced (or in a different position) if you're not re-signing CFS.

Backs are covered, saw a tweet the other day that if the Rebels fold the only Aussie team McMahon would consider is the Reds.

I think we need to be getting ready to make a move.

 

[Getwithme]

I've heard a rumor that he's going to Japan for the off-season to cash up, and then is coming to the reds to soften the loss for the Rebels (i.e. losing him to Japanese rugby, not the reds) Just a rumor though

 

[hammertimethere]

Well we signed Maranta, who has been about as impressive as a wet noodle in his Super Rugby time (and nothing special in Prems) over Banks who was in the system, dominating QPR and NRC and has since shown clearly that he was ready to take the step to Super Rugby.

The type of player we need is Lachie Turner of 2014 (or whenever we signed him). Experienced, consistent and a great team man.

However I do not trust the Reds/Cordingley's ability fill the gap with an experienced player. It'll be another flop I almost guarantee it.

That said, we're losing Tui back to Japan, so the acquisition of McMahon would be awesome. Him paired with Smith (or Gill) is potentially dynamite.

 

[Sully]

Well we signed Maranta, who has been about as impressive as a wet noodle in his Super Rugby time (and nothing special in Prems) over Banks who was in the system, dominating QPR and NRC and has since shown clearly that he was ready to take the step to Super Rugby.

The type of player we need is Lachie Turner of 2014 (or whenever we signed him). Experienced, consistent and a great team man.

However I do not trust the Reds/Cordingley's ability fill the gap with an experienced player. It'll be another flop I almost guarantee it.

That said, we're losing Tui back to Japan, so the acquisition of McMahon would be awesome. Him paired with Smith (or Gill) is potentially dynamite.

We signed Banks but he got a better offer and took it.

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[Moonrat]

I just hope there are no more Rugby League converts the transition period is too long and when you analyse the cost v return over picking up a good Prem player am not sure it works out.
Most of the league converts have been in a 24/7 program benefiting from all the trimmings of being a pro player, quality coaching, s&c etc. A kid like C.Quick (as an example) probably works all day, trains twice a week, does weights when he can and eats what his room mates can knock up with their limited skills and I wouldn't think many of us would pay the $100k (whatever the figure is) for Maranta over Quick.

 

[Getwithme]

I just hope there are no more Rugby League converts the transition period is too long and when you analyse the cost v return over picking up a good Prem player am not sure it works out.
Most of the league converts have been in a 24/7 program benefiting from all the trimmings of being a pro player, quality coaching, s&c etc. A kid like C.Quick (as an example) probably works all day, trains twice a week, does weights when he can and eats what his room mates can knock up with their limited skills and I wouldn't think many of us would pay the $100k (whatever the figure is) for Maranta over Quick.

This is a strong point. Put someone as talented as Quick into that professional environment after 2-3 years of premier grade rugby as well as an Aus Schoolboy and Aus 20's, I think we would see him do great things. This is the type of a apprenticeship all developing players need. He's now

This I think is generally the issue many people have been calling out for in regards to squads and sides in Australian rugby. We seem to pick players on potential in our squads, not the strongest possible group. In order to keep these talented kids in our game we are offering them pro contracts at such a young age and they are simply not ready for a whole host of reasons; whether that be lack of proper matches, physical development and mental development, etc etc.

Although some argue that age is just a number in regard to playing ability and talent, I think we often forget the value of having played years of rugby and the things you learn from this. Another case in point to me would be Toby White, a player who would arguably be consistently better than some of our current roster, not due to a huge spike in his talent but because he knows the ins and outs of his position and has been playing at a consistently strong level for a multitude of years.

Anyone agrre/disagree? Would be intresting to year your thoughts.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Hard to see anyone disagreeing. It's obviously an issue.

What causes it to be an issue is the need to get these 19/20/21 year olds with potential into a contracted program, both for their development, but also to lock them into a franchise/into the sport. And once they are contracted, and being paid, they get played if the need arises.

Until we can work out a seperate way to retain the young guys within the sport and within the country then it's going to be an issue

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[Moonrat]

Agree. Forget the personalities involved, it just makes sense.
Dominant schoolboy players can be dominant because they matured early, they are a year older than their peers or simply because they are in a better coached program.
Too many kids get soaked up into the Super program without playing enough rugby against enough "old heads" and develop a real hunger to be a pro by developing a strong hate for actually working in a job and trying to play.
I look at the current crop of U20's at the Reds and question how much of a rugby apprenticeship are they getting. How many games will Luca, Hockings, Blyth, Scott Young, Hewitt, Wright, Stewart, Nguama have actually played against adults before they are 20? Without knowing the numbers I am guessing not very many, in most cases less than 10. How is that preparing them for a career often peeking between 25-30.
How do we know their potential if they are not tested in adult premier grade rugby first.

 

[bloodred]

Conrad Quick is a good example indeed. I hope that after what he has displayed since leaving school here on the Coast that he is not "spotted" in NZ and snapped up

 

[Scrubber2050]

Think that is the difficult part of Cordingly's job.

He needs a new crystal ball with a view to 2 or 3 years after school.

It's a breeze to pick the biggest, strongest kid at schools level. You don't cop any criticism for that when the player fails, well at least by the mugs out there. I have mentioned it before that there are so many areas that need to be looked at (other than size, strength etc at THAT time).

Love to gift that crystal ball to Sam if I find one at a garage sale

 

[RugbyReg]

Conrad Quick is a good example indeed. I hope that after what he has displayed since leaving school here on the Coast that he is not "spotted" in NZ and snapped up

I think he's there already isn't he?

 

[Strewthcobber]

You only need to look at how many busts there are at the top level in the NBA and NFL drafts to see how hard it is to pick and predict talent. And those teams get to base it on 21 year Olds, not guys in school

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[Scrubber2050]

That's why he gets paid the big bucks !

 

[Beer Baron]

That's why Cyril Connell was kept close to Wayne Bennetts side

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[Scrubber2050]

The old bloke was an amazing purveyor of talent, and for a long time.

AND greatly appreciated by Bennett

 

[Beer Baron]

The old bloke was an amazing purveyor of talent, and for a long time.

AND greatly appreciated by Bennett

Not too many success stories for Cordingley thus far... Frisby and ready were looking the goods. I imagine kerevi "recruited himself". Can't think of anyone developed into a solid player during his5(?) Years in charge

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[Getwithme]

Yep Quick is off to NZ following Feletei Kaitu'u's lead

 

[gel]

Is it his job for talent identification, or just negotiation for the contracts? Is it the coach that identifies what players he wants for his squad? Or the coaching team? Or someone else?

I'm actually confused by who actually does what in this regard, because I'm not too sure that one person (who is not the coach) would be the sole person responsible for talent identification.