Reds 2017

[No4918]

Kings have more wins than the Reds! Is that as bad as it sounds? Yes, probably is. Sick of all the BS about Reds being so close to getting it right. Been hearing it since round 2. Nothing much has changed since then.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Reds are currently worst in the comp for ruck penalties, total penalties (Douglas and Smith worst offenders), for dominant tackles, and pretty close for turnovers won.

Missed tackles have improved markedly over the last month. Kerevi still the team's worst but dropped back to third in the comp.

Just 7 penalty goals kicked all​ season and only 13 attempts. (Though Canes and Crusaders have fewer so not a huge correlation with victory there!)






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[Thinker]

Kings have more wins than the Reds! Is that as bad as it sounds? Yes, probably is. Sick of all the BS about Reds being so close to getting it right. Been hearing it since round 2. Nothing much has changed since then.

Stiles is tracking to have as bad a year as Graham's worst.

There were massive red flags last year when the squad did not improve throughout the year, even when there was the Test window and virtually none played Test rugby. Not to mention every year of Stiles coaching career.

Again we have decision makers who have absolutely no idea what they are doing making decisions with no consequences for themselves. There are people in this country who know a fair bit about this stuff just not in decision-making roles.

We will have a 4 win year this year, Stiles will be under pressure, keep job. Next year will be just as bad, get sacked, board will change a few seats and keep smiling because they get to spend a few hours a month away from their wives. Cycle continues.


For the numbers fans:

Stiles as a Reds coach: 14 from 55 (25.4%)
Stiles as co-interim head coach: 3 from 14 (21.4%)
Stiles as Head Coach: 2 from 9 (22.2%)

 

[Sully]

If you don't think the Reds are better than last year then you're not actually watching.

 

[Thinker]

If you don't think the Reds are better than last year then you're not actually watching.

The Reds last year sacked their coach after round 1 and had co-interim head coaches. They won 3 games.

This year this year they had a full preseason added the Wallaby captain, George Smith and a Wallaby fly-half, Kane Douglas (full season), a 100 cap Super Rugby
and former captain in Higgers and some miscellaneous improvements. They will win 4 games at best.

They are conceding more points per game than the last 2 seasons.

They are actually scoring more, but only 1 pt per game if you don't factor the Kings. Given Quade vs McIntyre not a huge leap.

To say they are better is like saying a surgeon is getting better with the scalpel. Sure every dies on his operating table, but his cuts are getting much better.

 

[No4918]

If you don't think the Reds are better than last year then you're not actually watching.

Maybe they are just playing differently in a style the fans find more attractive? It is no more successful.

2014 - 5/16 wins
2015 - 4/16 wins
2016 - 3/15 wins

2017 - 2/9 wins

6 games to go. Three kiwis plus Force, Rebels and Brumbies. I'm only confident about the Rebels.

 

[The torpedo]

The solution:

 

[Thinker]

I've never truly understood the cliche "If you love something, set it free".

Maybe this was written for Nick Stiles.

He's been on the staff for 55 games now. And while not entirely his fault the team has won 14 games and drawn 1.

The previous 55 games we won 37 and drew 2.

At what point does it turn around? At what point does this "passion" we hear about exceed a pay check.

 

[The torpedo]

At what point does it turn around?

It has to be next year

 

[Lee Enfield]

I think the Reds would be wise to cut Stiles loose at the end of the season and look for a head coach outside of the Ballymore car park. Close losses are still losses and there is no indication he is the person to right the ship. The poor ball skills, poor discipline and poor tackling is on him. These skills don't take multiple seasons to get right.

I do not have the answer to who should be coach, but whoever it is, it is not Stiles.

 

[swingpass]

^^^^^ you're welcome to Mcgahan

 

[RedsHappy]

The Reds last year sacked their coach after round 1 and had co-interim head coaches. They won 3 games.

This year this year they had a full preseason added the Wallaby captain, George Smith and a Wallaby fly-half, Kane Douglas (full season), a 100 cap Super Rugby
and former captain in Higgers and some miscellaneous improvements. They will win 4 games at best.

They are conceding more points per game than the last 2 seasons.

They are actually scoring more, but only 1 pt per game if you don't factor the Kings. Given Quade vs McIntyre not a huge leap.

To say they are better is like saying a surgeon is getting better with the scalpel. Sure every dies on his operating table, but his cuts are getting much better.

Good, revealing analysis Thinker, thanks.

It strikes me that there is small bevy of Reds fans that now accept, and are largely OK with, a 2017 combination of 'valiant losses + trying harder + QC (Quade Cooper)-is-better-than-JMcC + a bit more flair in attack = I'm OK with that and it's better'. This is the group that mostly wound itself into a hyperactive lather in the 2013-15 period when a handful of posters here were heavily critical of RG; that heavy critique was typically tagged as 'destructively negative towards the team and coaches' and they formed a kind of little wolf pack here to stigmatise posters who saw an HC emperor with zero clothes and freezing to death.

Fair enough, that's their right I guess.

But more objectively, in 2017 we've moving forward (at best) at a minute pace and there are literally x'000s of Reds fans who disagree and that have totally lost interest and motivation to even bother to turn up, and this is shown in Foxtel viewership levels for Reds' games just as much. It's the viewpoint of these vast tracts of ex-Reds fans that really matter, and they want wins at Suncorp and confidence that they'll (mostly) come to see good wins.

Whatever the vibe on these boards, the bigger truth is that a Stiles-led snails-pace Reds model for 2017 is proving a commercial and fan motivational disaster for the QRU, just as will be the fact that, repetitively, we cannot beat the Tahs, our major Super rival.

 

[Ignoto]

While I don't think he's entirely blameless, I do wonder why Stiles is the one copping all the blame while Jason Gilmore and the lack of on field leadership flies under the radar.

Just from a high level point of view, we are conceding 35 points a game. In what world is that acceptable and why aren't we seeing any form of improvement in this area. I'll give Stiles the benefit of the doubt just for now as I find it refreshing that he doesn't offer up excuses unlike Dick did.

More importantly, the start of the season, we touted the 'great experienced' leaders we had in this team and how beneficial they were going to be. In at least three games now, we've lost our composure in the second half and the Lions were lucky they didn't come from behind and beat us. However, in the Crusaders, Lions and Waratahs, these experienced heads didn't guide us to seeing out winning positions to the final hooter.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Reds have surely captured a unique record this week.

Scored more tries than all of the other Oz teams combined and still couldn't win the match

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[TSR]

Good, revealing analysis Thinker, thanks.

It strikes me that there is small bevy of Reds fans that now accept, and are largely OK with, a 2017 combination of 'valiant losses + trying harder + QC (Quade Cooper)-is-better-than-JMcC + a bit more flair in attack = I'm OK with that and it's better'. This is the group that mostly wound itself into a hyperactive lather in the 2013-15 period when a handful of posters here were heavily critical of RG; that heavy critique was typically tagged as 'destructively negative towards the team and coaches' and they formed a kind of little wolf pack here to stigmatise posters who saw an HC emperor with zero clothes and freezing to death.

Fair enough, that's their right I guess.

But more objectively, in 2017 we've moving forward (at best) at a minute pace and there are literally x'000s of Reds fans who disagree and that have totally lost interest and motivation to even bother to turn up, and this is shown in Foxtel viewership levels for Reds' games just as much. It's the viewpoint of these vast tracts of ex-Reds fans that really matter, and they want wins at Suncorp and confidence that they'll (mostly) come to see good wins.

Whatever the vibe on these boards, the bigger truth is that a Stiles-led snails-pace Reds model for 2017 is proving a commercial and fan motivational disaster for the QRU, just as will be the fact that, repetitively, we cannot beat the Tahs, our major Super rival.

Redshappy - a lot of what you say is accurate, but with regards to us fans who are supposedly 'happy' to accept the status quo - what exactly would you have me do? And what difference would it make?

Walk away completely? Say fuck it, I'm done. Exactly how does that help?

Do you honestly think we don't care, don't notice or don't give a shit.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if more than about 1% of fans are out there in the denial you seem to think we are - but while panning the Reds admin on here
might relieve a bit of stress momentarily it actually achieves fuck all in the scheme of things.

By all means continue your crusade - I agree with lots of things you write. But unless you have some practical solution which doesn't involve me just saying fuck it to the Reds (which won't make anything better) I'd appreciate it if you didn't constantly look down your nose at me and others like me.

 

[Lee Enfield]

As head coach, Stiles is ultimately responsible for the Reds performance or lack of. I would imagine that the new head coach would want to bring in their own assistants.
The current assistant coaches aren't getting a free ride, they will go down with ship.

 

[Strewthcobber]

As head coach, Stiles is ultimately responsible for the Reds performance or lack of. I would imagine that the new head coach would want to bring in their own assistants.
The current assistant coaches aren't getting a free ride, they will go down with ship.

Like RG's assistant Nick Stiles?

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[nightnday]

While I don't think he's entirely blameless, I do wonder why Stiles is the one copping all the blame while Jason Gilmore and the lack of on field leadership flies under the radar.

Just from a high level point of view, we are conceding 35 points a game. In what world is that acceptable and why aren't we seeing any form of improvement in this area. I'll give Stiles the benefit of the doubt just for now as I find it refreshing that he doesn't offer up excuses unlike Dick did.

More importantly, the start of the season, we touted the 'great experienced' leaders we had in this team and how beneficial they were going to be. In at least three games now, we've lost our composure in the second half and the Lions were lucky they didn't come from behind and beat us. However, in the Crusaders, Lions and Waratahs, these experienced heads didn't guide us to seeing out winning positions to the final hooter.

I could not agree more. I saw Gilmore running out the drinks, like he does for every game and he literally just handed the drink bottle, no chat not talk from him. To Gilmore's credit though I did note the bottle had been filled correctly and he was offering it to other players that he felt required liquids.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Like RG's assistant Nick Stiles?

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That is the problem....the search for the next head coach seemed a forgone conclusion.

Maybe the Reds could approach fox to run a show like NRL Rookie but about finding their next coach. They probably couldn't do any worse than they have with last two coaches.
Once the coach is picked, the ARU could run a show like the NFL hard knocks
revolving around the offseason training.

 

[Thinker]

While I don't think he's entirely blameless, I do wonder why Stiles is the one copping all the blame while Jason Gilmore and the lack of on field leadership flies under the radar.

Just from a high level point of view, we are conceding 35 points a game. In what world is that acceptable and why aren't we seeing any form of improvement in this area. I'll give Stiles the benefit of the doubt just for now as I find it refreshing that he doesn't offer up excuses unlike Dick did.

More importantly, the start of the season, we touted the 'great experienced' leaders we had in this team and how beneficial they were going to be. In at least three games now, we've lost our composure in the second half and the Lions were lucky they didn't come from behind and beat us. However, in the Crusaders, Lions and Waratahs, these experienced heads didn't guide us to seeing out winning positions to the final hooter.

Plenty has been made of Gilmore and his history built on recruiting super teams year in and year out with very limited success.

His time as a D coach in the NRC was awful and he has carried it over to the Reds.

We are on pace to concede 60 tries this year. Even the Wilkins D wasn;t that bad.

Anyone who isn't publicly calling for Gilmore's immediate sacking should probably be banned for life from any involvement in the sport except for that of paying punter.

So he will probably be the next Reds coach.