Reds 2017

[Scoey]

I did some figures also. Just because I'm a masochist apparently.

Won 1 from 7.
Won 2 halves from 14 (drawn 2 also).

Avg 1st half margin -2.7
Avg 2nd half margin -12

Three games we have improved in the second half or stayed the same. 4 games we have dropped off. The 3 games were against SA conference, the 4 were against Aus or NZ conference.

 

[RugbyReg]

2nd half points also a big concern.

We scored three tries (2 in the last quarter) to win against the Sharks, but since then...

Force = 7 pnts (1 converted try) v 14 pnts
Crusaders = 0 pnts v 15 pnts
Lions = 14 pnts (2 tries, but absolute consolation tries) v 27 pnts
Jaguares = 5 pnts (1 try) v 7 pnts
Hurricanes = 3 pnts v 20 pnts
Brumbies = 3 pnts v 33 pnts

So three times (against the top teams) we haven't been able to score a try in the 2nd half. Two other games we only scored 1 and then the other we scored two late consolation ones.

 

[Scoey]

One of the figures I extrapolated was the difference between the first half margin and the second half margin. For lack of a better word I called this the 'swing' as it showed best how much our performance changed between the first and second halves.

SHA +8
FOR -7
CRU -28
LIO 0
JAG +10
HUR -15
BRU -33

The Brumbies and the Crusaders being the biggest capitulations and the Hurricanes being less so but still significant.

The Lions game was probably an improvement even though the swing was zero because we lost both halves by 15pts but played the second half with 13 men for a period and 14 for most of it.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I still support Stiles

We have a great forward pack but the front row and definitely, the second row are not performing to the required level. Only brightish spots are Higgers and Smith.

Is that the players fault? or a valid Stiles criticism? To me and in particular, Moore, Douglas and Simmons, all very experienced Wallabies have been quite poor. Those guys should be able to flick a switch on game day but they cannot seem to find the fucker.

Rodda was great in first game but has had injury and disappeared.

Frisby has been a disappointment this year. Thought he would go up another notch after the EOYT but ? Tuttle looks OK but just.

10 spot is a shambles. Quade hasn;t played well at all and McIntyre just continues with his game. I seriously doubt whether he has the capacity to ever become a good one.

Someone mentioned the lacking of passion blah blah.. I agree that if you bring in non Queenslanders or old ones (like Moore) some of that "passion" won't be there.

Home grown produce gives the best yield

 

[The torpedo]

One of the figures I extrapolated was the difference between the first half margin and the second half margin. For lack of a better word I called this the 'swing' as it showed best how much our performance changed between the first and second halves.

SHA +8
FOR -7
CRU -28
LIO 0
JAG +10
HUR -15
BRU -33

The Brumbies and the Crusaders being the biggest capitulations and the Hurricanes being less so but still significant.

The Lions game was probably an improvement even though the swing was zero because we lost both halves by 15pts but played the second half with 13 men for a period and 14 for most of it.

Where did you get a swing of -28 points from?

 

[upthereds#!]

Simmons is kinda like nonu was, shithouse at Super Rugby most the time. Sooner Rodda develops the better. Also heard last night that Slipper is out for 12 months potentially. Shame to hear Houston is keen to bail back to Europe but I can understand. Hopefully this allows us to bring back Naisarani if the Force fold. Also...DHP would be a pretty handy pickup!

Who else from the force (if it's the force) would you prefer to have come to the Reds/home to Queensland?

 

[RugbyReg]

Who else from the force (if it's the force) would you prefer to have come to the Reds/home to Queensland?

I'm not going there...

 

[Scoey]

Where did you get a swing of -28 points from?

We won the first half 20-7 and they won the second 15-0 for a full time score of 22-20 to the Crusaders.

Second half margin (-15) minus first half margin (+13) = -28

Basically we won't the first half well and they won the second half well.

 

[upthereds#!]

I'm not going there.

Fair enough. Either way there will be a number of new players next year. Interested to see who.

 

[Braveheart81]

We won the first half 20-7 and they won the second 15-0 for a full time score of 22-20 to the Crusaders.

Second half margin (-15) minus first half margin (+13) = -28

Basically we won't the first half well and they won the second half well.

I don't think that logic really holds.

If it had been a nil-all second half and the Reds had won 20-7 your 'swing' statistic would have been -13 in a game you won comfortably.

If the Crusaders hadn't scored a point in the second half an you'd scored less than 13 points you'd still be showing a negative swing.

 

[RugbyReg]

Putting aside new players on the market, there are some very interesting contracts up at the end of the season for the Reds. From what I can tell Rob Simmons and Cadeyrn Neville are both done (I'd cut Simmo and keep Neville), Timu and Tui (Tui will go, Timu depends on the next few months I guess).

Frisby and McIntyre are both up I believe which is significant given the current playing performances of both (give 7s a go Pickle!)

Then we have a bunch of outside backs including Hunt, CFS, Nabuli, Kuridrani and Magnay. I am not sure what the status of Perese is.

 

[Brumby Runner]

2nd half points also a big concern.

We scored three tries (2 in the last quarter) to win against the Sharks, but since then.

Force = 7 pnts (1 converted try) v 14 pnts
Crusaders = 0 pnts v 15 pnts
Lions = 14 pnts (2 tries, but absolute consolation tries) v 27 pnts
Jaguares = 5 pnts (1 try) v 7 pnts
Hurricanes = 3 pnts v 20 pnts
Brumbies = 3 pnts v 33 pnts

So three times (against the top teams) we haven't been able to score a try in the 2nd half. Two other games we only scored 1 and then the other we scored two late consolation ones.

Don't want to rain on your parade RR but the score against the Brumbies at half time was 10 - 10. To be accurate, Reds scored 0 in the second half.

 

[wamberal]

Neville is a perpetual disappointment to me. He just seems to go missing a lot when the pressure comes on.


Simmo is good at the lineout. Damned with faint praise.

 

[Scoey]

I don't think that logic really holds.

If it had been a nil-all second half and the Reds had won 20-7 your 'swing' statistic would have been -13 in a game you won comfortably.

If the Crusaders hadn't scored a point in the second half an you'd scored less than 13 points you'd still be showing a negative swing.

Yeah it works fine in that case. It's just a comparison between first and second half performance.

If we win the first half by 13pts and the second is nil all then the comparison between first and second halves should be negative regardless of whether we win comfortably or not.

 

[Simon.]

Yeah Scoey's metric is fine, although you do have to be careful interpreting it.

Getting flogged in the first half then slightly less flogged in the second half gives you a positive score when in reality it may just be that the opposition took the foot of the gas, which is what I think happened in both the Lions and Jags games.

The Reds can put in for about 50 minutes but after that they start to miss tackles, their attacking shape disintegrates, and they start dropping the ball. It makes no difference who is starting and who's on the bench, so it's not the quality of the bench. If it's not a fitness issue, I don't know what else could explain it. And it's not just this season either, second-half blowouts have been a feature of the Reds for a few years now.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I would bid bigtime for Lance - bring him home. Both current options just not performing well.

Would keep Simmo over Neville Douglas or Rodda. Bloke bleeds Queensland. 2 of the others are both NSW - dunno about Neville. Partly about the passion and culture that players bring. The passion should be for Queensland first and not for your "heritage".

If the passion and culture argument are valid (and to me they are) then pick local lads. If the age of professionalism has outweighed the other argument then get rid of the constraints currently in place re foreign players. You might end up with a team of 23 Kiwis wearing the Reds jersey.

Personally that is not for me

 

[neilc]

Putting aside new players on the market, there are some very interesting contracts up at the end of the season for the Reds. From what I can tell Rob Simmons and Cadeyrn Neville are both done (I'd cut Simmo and keep Neville), Timu and Tui (Tui will go, Timu depends on the next few months I guess).

Frisby and McIntyre are both up I believe which is significant given the current playing performances of both (give 7s a go Pickle!)

Then we have a bunch of outside backs including Hunt, CFS, Nabuli, Kuridrani and Magnay. I am not sure what the status of Perese is.

I thought that Frisby was announced as being re-signed for another couple of years at the start of this season? I can't imagine McIntyre being re-signed, he would be better developing his game in Japan or Europe.

 

[new recruit_ brisbane]

Putting aside new players on the market, there are some very interesting contracts up at the end of the season for the Reds. From what I can tell Rob Simmons and Cadeyrn Neville are both done (I'd cut Simmo and keep Neville), Timu and Tui (Tui will go, Timu depends on the next few months I guess).

Frisby and McIntyre are both up I believe which is significant given the current playing performances of both (give 7s a go Pickle!)

Then we have a bunch of outside backs including Hunt, CFS, Nabuli, Kuridrani and Magnay. I am not sure what the status of Perese is.

Didn't Frisby just resign untill 2019:?

 

[RugbyReg]

Ahh. You're right. I missed that. Good point. Oh well. He's safe.


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[RedsHappy]

You know things have gone from bad to (very much) worse when a journo who was a near-sycophant to the QRU for years, today says:

Capitulation to Brumbies shows Queensland Reds in dire straits

.......and, can you believe it, in the linked article also says some blame must be shared by the QRU board (pigs do fly over Ballymore, sometimes, yes they do).

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...s/news-story/550fa87d5d30059a5f8ace15c6073297