Reds 2016

[Serge]

I disagree that there is bugger all to be resolved by dropping McIntyre. He has proven over and over again that he is not up to it with his cross field steps before delivering too often a poor pass. His involvements in directing phase play are poor and his defence is not strong physically. His only redeeming feature so far is his goalkicking - but there are other kickers. Even Hunt when he has been called in to run in the 10 channel on occasion goes forward with his first steps and draws or slows defences before either taking on the line or passing. Why not give Greene a decent go and see if he has the goods - he can't be worse than what we are doing now. At the moment we are doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We need change to get a different result and a change at 10 is now critical.

 

[TOCC]

What offensive structure can you use with the current personnel?
.

Lol take your pick...
The structure and cohesion of the backline is abysmal, get passes in front of the players and players rubbing onto the ball and they immediately look and perform better...

RG's legacy is a poorly coached team, the squad for its most part is lacking in experience but not talent.

 

[RedsHappy]

I think this is true.

We seem to be able to create talented players, but seem to have a pretty long history in either not recognising it or not developing it further.

QRU (and Auckland Blues for that matter) are pretty ordinary organisations it would seem.

Right. And this is the heart of the matter. As numerous of the above posts rightly note, excellence in elite rugby coaching begets excellence in talent identification, skills development and overall player capability. There can be no disputing this, the evidence is overwhelming.

Take 2007-2016 in assessing the QRU's Super Rugby performance. 9 very important years in the history of QLD rugby as the second core base (of just two) of all Australian rugby.

Look at the Super coaches chosen by the QRU in this period, and the ladder positions reached each year:

2007 Jones 14th
2008-9 Mooney 12th and 13th
2010-13 Mckenzie 5th and 1st and 5th
2014-15 Graham 13th and 13th

And just for record, in the period 2004-6 the Reds' Super ladder positions attained were 10th and 10th and 12th, and all such were in the Super 12 era.

So we can assess a 12 year period if 9 is deemed too short.

What does this tell us? It tells us that the QRU is, typically, very poor to extremely poor in choosing coaches that could design and build a team to even Super Finals standard, let alone a consistently Finals standard. McKenzie was indisputably an aberration, an outlier, before historical track record and form were restored to trend.

Why is this? Well, it's:

(a) because the institutional and governance frameworks over-sighting the whole code here are bankrupt - not as to money per se - but of appropriate competence and skill and genuine professionalism and

(b), more particularly, as was best shown in the truly scandalous case of the rise of R Graham, the QRU itself is based not upon a well-rooted professionalism but rather a complex form of insular tribal nepotism, local introverted rugby cliques and a near-corrupt version of 'mateship' that preferences immediately known and comfortable social compliance attributes over objective skill and managerial quality.

 

[Stumpy]

I mentioned on the other thread how the potential solution to the Reds #10 problem does not involve looking elsewhere at this present stage. The Reds should be looking to the bench.

 

[I like to watch]

Lol take your pick.
The structure and cohesion of the backline is abysmal, get passes in front of the players and players rubbing onto the ball and they immediately look and perform better.

RG's legacy is a poorly coached team, the squad for its most part is lacking in experience but not talent.

It's not all Graham's fault.
The new guys are picking the same guys,playing the same way,getting the same results.
McIntyre may or may not end up being a quality super 10.
But he's incompetent atm,picking him because he's young,helps no one.
Greene cannot play worse,give him 4 weeks & see if things improve.

 

[Jets]

Ok if we are going to stick with Jake can't MOC please tell him to RUN FUCKING STRAIGHT. It's not that hard.

Also have to agree that the problem with Aust rugby currently isn't that we don't have the players for 5 teams, it's that we don't have the coaches. 2 out of our 5 teams are pretty well covered. We have 3 teams that don't have coaches of this standard. NSW and Qld may develop over time but we don't have many options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ruggo]

Right. And this is the heart of the matter. As numerous of the above posts rightly note, excellence in elite rugby coaching begets excellence in talent identification, skills development and overall player capability. There can be no disputing this, the evidence is overwhelming.

Take 2007-2016 in assessing the QRU's Super Rugby performance. 9 very important years in the history of QLD rugby as the second core base (of just two) of all Australian rugby.

Look at the Super coaches chosen by the QRU in this period, and the ladder positions reached each year:

2007 Jones 14th
2008-9 Mooney 12th and 13th
2010-13 Mckenzie 5th and 1st and 5th
2014-15 Graham 13th and 13th

And just for record, in the period 2004-6 the Reds' Super ladder positions attained were 10th and 10th and 12th, and all such were in the Super 12 era.

So we can assess a 12 year period if 9 is deemed too short.

What does this tell us? It tells us that the QRU is, typically, very poor to extremely poor in choosing coaches that could design and build a team to even Super Finals standard, let alone a consistently Finals standard. McKenzie was indisputably an aberration, an outlier, before historical track record and form were restored to trend.

Why is this? Well, it's:

(a) because the institutional and governance frameworks over-sighting the whole code here are bankrupt - not as to money per se - but of appropriate competence and skill and genuine professionalism and

(b), more particularly, as was best shown in the truly scandalous case of the rise of R Graham, the QRU itself is based not upon a well-rooted professionalism but rather a complex form of insular tribal nepotism, local introverted rugby cliques and a near-corrupt version of 'mateship' that preferences immediately known and comfortable social compliance attributes over objective skill and managerial quality.

I get what you are saying RH but there is some context behind those stats.

EJ (Eddie Jones) and RG are clear cut. Mooney and Link are a bit different. Mooney embraced some good young talent and in his short tenure changed the ethos in how the Reds played. By a long shot not the complete package but he left the Reds in a better state than he inherited. Stats don't quite represent how dramatic some of his changes were. Links wisdom was to build off these changes and he had an administration who backed him up. His rugby ethos also evolved when he came to the Reds. He was always methodical but the style of his teams were a bit dull. History has distorted some of the earlier stuff.

The point I make is the next Reds coach will have some positive stuff to inherit like link did. I sure hope the new coach is given the mandate and backing of a supportive admin like Link was afforded.

That is how I read it anyways.

 

[Gnostic]

I get what you are saying RH but there is some context behind those stats.



EJ (Eddie Jones) and RG are clear cut. Mooney and Link are a bit different. Mooney embraced some good young talent and in his short tenure changed the ethos in how the Reds played. By a long shot not the complete package but he left the Reds in a better state than he inherited. Stats don't quite represent how dramatic some of his changes were. Links wisdom was to build off these changes and he had an administration who backed him up. His rugby ethos also evolved when he came to the Reds. He was always methodical but the style of his teams were a bit dull. History has distorted some of the earlier stuff.



The point I make is the next Reds coach will have some positive stuff to inherit like link did. I sure hope the new coach is given the mandate and backing of a supportive admin like Link was afforded.



That is how I read it anyways.

Ruggo there is always context behind the stats. The facts are pretty stark though. I agree Monney has never got the credit he did for building the backline attack that Link inherited. But Link deserves the plaudits for bringing some consistency and a complete coaching group for 2010 and 2011. It was well and truly on the wane again in 2012 and Graham was brought in to assist on what proven skills basis?

The crux of Redshappy's post and my understanding is that apart from that brilliant season where the stars aligned there has not been any true reformation of the Reds management, and hence the quick reversion to the long term trend. If we want to see a sustainable championship side (one that can truly offer a challenge) we need to see genuine reform of how the coaches are appointed and how they are accountable. It is not through lack of talent that the Reds have failed so abysmally. This argument can be extrapolated to the whole of Rugby in Australia, which as I outlined on another thread every single province has some form of managerial disfunction of significant proportions that has gone unchecked for a significant period of time. Such a situation is not conducive to building a team that can perform at peak potential, indeed success under such circumstances can be seen as outperformance.

 

[liquor box]

Ok if we are going to stick with Jake can't MOC please tell him to RUN FUCKING STRAIGHT. It's not that hard.

Also have to agree that the problem with Aust rugby currently isn't that we don't have the players for 5 teams, it's that we don't have the coaches. 2 out of our 5 teams are pretty well covered. We have 3 teams that don't have coaches of this standard. NSW and Qld may develop over time but we don't have many options.


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All Super Rugby coaches should be overlooked by the Wallabies coach. They are producing his talent.

With this is the obvious point that the Wallabies coach should not be a Super Rugby coach.

 

[pjm]

Australia would be coming into a golden era if we only had 4 teams.

 

[gel]

Right. And this is the heart of the matter. As numerous of the above posts rightly note, excellence in elite rugby coaching begets excellence in talent identification, skills development and overall player capability. There can be no disputing this, the evidence is overwhelming.

Take 2007-2016 in assessing the QRU's Super Rugby performance. 9 very important years in the history of QLD rugby as the second core base (of just two) of all Australian rugby.

Look at the Super coaches chosen by the QRU in this period, and the ladder positions reached each year:

2007 Jones 14th
2008-9 Mooney 12th and 13th
2010-13 Mckenzie 5th and 1st and 5th
2014-15 Graham 13th and 13th

And just for record, in the period 2004-6 the Reds' Super ladder positions attained were 10th and 10th and 12th, and all such were in the Super 12 era.

So we can assess a 12 year period if 9 is deemed too short.

What does this tell us? It tells us that the QRU is, typically, very poor to extremely poor in choosing coaches that could design and build a team to even Super Finals standard, let alone a consistently Finals standard. McKenzie was indisputably an aberration, an outlier, before historical track record and form were restored to trend.

Why is this? Well, it's:

(a) because the institutional and governance frameworks over-sighting the whole code here are bankrupt - not as to money per se - but of appropriate competence and skill and genuine professionalism and

(b), more particularly, as was best shown in the truly scandalous case of the rise of R Graham, the QRU itself is based not upon a well-rooted professionalism but rather a complex form of insular tribal nepotism, local introverted rugby cliques and a near-corrupt version of 'mateship' that preferences immediately known and comfortable social compliance attributes over objective skill and managerial quality.

So, you're predicting the QRU will sign up Michael Foley then.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

So, you're predicting the QRU will sign up Michael Foley then.

Kick a man in the guts while he's down why don't you!

 

[gel]

^^Ît is one of my greatest fears, but like RH I don't have a tremendous amount of faith in the QRU.

 

[Scrubber2050]

lot of fault was RG's.

The fix will not be made until a new SINGLE coach is appointed.

The forwards are good - particularly at the set pieces.

The backline is terrible - lacking of shills and that "hard edge". Kerevi is fucking lucky to make the team, the way he is playing.

MOC is not doing himself (or the team) any favours the way he is "coaching" numbers 9-15. Someone said it perfectly re McIntyre - run straight. If he cannot (and it appears he won't or can't then fucking hook him.

 

[Waterboyrugby]

Can't you all see the Reds great new strategy? The knock-on has become an integral part of the gameplan, used like never before in World Rugby. The masters of the scrum, the Reds use the knock-on as a way to entice the opposition into a scrum. The resulting penalty earns the Reds field position which they subsequently use to brilliantly knock-on into another scrum, hopefully each time getting closer to penalty kicking distance.

In order to perfect the new strategy, the team hasn't practiced with a rugby ball in months. The results are clear!

McIntyre & Goromaru have been practising their goal kicking and kicking to touch everyday.

They hope to win a game soon with this brave new innovative style of play.

 

[dru]

Possible smokeys for Wallaby squad:

Faagase
Reddy

 

[Scrubber2050]

Possible smokeys for Wallaby squad:

Faagase
Reddy

I said it awhile ago that Chibba leaving the Reds (scrum) was a negative move for him

Think it has opened the door a bit for Ready.

 

[Braveheart81]

I said it awhile ago that Chibba leaving the Reds (scrum) was a negative move for him

Think it has opened the door a bit for Ready.

Why? Hanson is now playing well for a better team.

He is well ahead of Ready.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Why? Hanson is now playing well for a better team.

He is well ahead of Ready.

ATM

 

[Highlander35]

Yeah, but there's not a snowballs chance in hell that Ready will overtake Hanson this season, and next season Moore's taking the starters spot for the forseeable future.