Reds 2016

[Rugrat]

McIntyre also delivers strongly at QPR level and performed as good if not better then Greene at NRC level.. I'm happy for the Reds to try something different, but the pessimist in me says that Greene will struggle in the same structure that McIntyre has struggled, after 4 to 5 games people will be saying the same things again and demand that the Reds try an alternative 5/8 after Greene fails to fire.

I understand this view however Greene dominated on the field as any top class player should when dropping back a level. Deserves his chance to be tested and supported at super level just like Jake has received. Not about one over the other. Just that the season is lost and development is a priority for the squad including Greene.

 

[Waterboyrugby]

McIntyre also delivers strongly at QPR level and performed as good if not better then Greene at NRC level.. I'm happy for the Reds to try something different, but the pessimist in me says that Greene will struggle in the same structure that McIntyre has struggled, after 4 to 5 games people will be saying the same things again and demand that the Reds try an alternative 5/8 after Greene fails to fire.

No actually this factually incorrect. Greene's performances for Country outshine McIntyre's by a country mile. McIntyre had the better team, but judged solely one what each guy provided their team, Greene did more. Stats aren't everything but if you compared them (line breaks, tries, line break assists) you'd see what the Reds can't. If you swapped them round, City would still win but Country would've lost every game.

 

[TOCC]

No actually this factually incorrect. Greene's performances for Country outshine McIntyre's by a country mile. McIntyre had the better team, but judged solely one what each guy provided their team, Greene did more. Stats aren't everything but if you compared them (line breaks, tries, line break assists) you'd see what the Reds can't. If you swapped them round, City would still win but Country would've lost every game.

I would say it's a rather subjective point not factual as to which played better at QPR/NRC level

 

[dru]

Reg, thanks for that, fabulous background. I dont know if anyone is going to be able to answer, but who were the board members who actively supported RG? How has the mix changed?

These guys have great rugby backgrounds but I'm guessing that fans wanted to see that the perception of "Qld rugby old boys club" was ending. Is it?

 

[Drama]

I would say it's a rather subjective point not factual as to which played better at QPR/NRC level

I'd argue it is actually more factual given @Waterboyrugby referred you to the stats. (EDIT: I understand what you are trying to say, but at least provide an example as to why McIntyre is/was so profound in QPR/NRC that would make statistical analysis redundant before dismissing his point)

Regardless, I think it is a pretty poor showing by the Reds to sit the lad on the bench while their numero uno in the 10 jersey has not shown his merit as a SUPER RUGBY 10 - this is the top level we are talking, you don't break in a horse in a Group 1 race...

McIntyre obviously has talent that has got him to this point and assumably has played his heart out for the team which is all anyone can ask of him; but it is time to make a change because he just isn't at the level required.

What harm can come of putting him on the bench one week and giving Greene a chance to show his wares ?

 

[TOCC]

Regardless, I think it is a pretty poor showing by the Reds to sit the lad on the bench while their numero uno in the 10 jersey has not shown his merit as a SUPER RUGBY 10 - this is the top level we are talking, you don't break in a horse in a Group 1 race.

What harm can come of putting him on the bench one week and giving Greene a chance to show his wares ?

This seems a little contradictory, you don't think they should be breaking in 5/8's at super rugby level but you want to see Greene given the stating jersey

I'm not against Greene starting, I just don't think 5/8 is the issue, even plays and movements where McIntyre isn't involved in are slow, passes behind the player and movements telegraphed for easy defensive reads. Greene can start, but then I see this same argument been recycled in 6 weeks when he to is ineffectual at Super Rugby level.

The whole backline attacking structure is poor, basic skills like passing in front of the player and running on to the ball are missing. Moves seem robotic and overly planned with little consideration given to the opposition defensive line alignment.

 

[RugbyReg]

Reg, thanks for that, fabulous background. I dont know if anyone is going to be able to answer, but who were the board members who actively supported RG? How has the mix changed?

These guys have great rugby backgrounds but I'm guessing that fans wanted to see that the perception of "Qld rugby old boys club" was ending. Is it?

It was always suggested that Rod McCall, Chris White and Mark Thompson were pro-RG. And of course Carmichael as Executive Director.

 

[TOCC]

I'd argue it is actually more factual given @Waterboyrugby referred you to the stats. (EDIT: I understand what you are trying to say, but at least provide an example as to why McIntyre is/was so profound in QPR/NRC that would make statistical analysis redundant before dismissing his point)

I didn't dismiss his point, I just don't agree with his comments that it's a 'fact' that Green is better then McIntyre at NRC/QPR levels. There was no statistical analysis provided either, he referred to statistics but never provided any.

Judging a players performance is a subjective issue, factual or statistical evidence can be used to support an argument and justification, but it still remains a subjective issue due to a number of factors and variable which aren't provided in a simple spreadsheet.

 

[Drama]

This seems a little contradictory, you don't think they should be breaking in 5/8's at super rugby level but you want to see Greene given the stating jersey

I'm not against Greene starting, I just don't think 5/8 is the issue, even plays and movements where McIntyre isn't involved in are slow, passes behind the player and movements telegraphed for easy defensive reads. Greene can start, but then I see this same argument been recycled in 6 weeks when he to is ineffectual at Super Rugby level.

The whole backline attacking structure is poor, basic skills like passing in front of the player and running on to the ball are missing. Moves seem robotic and overly planned with little consideration given to the opposition defensive line alignment.

I will clarify my remark RE: 'Breaking In.' - The main argument for McIntyre remaining in the 10 jersey that I have read among this thread is that he should be given time to adjust to Super Rugby level (a la the notion of breaking in), my argument is against this as, in my opinion, he doesn't have the raw tools to be successful NOW. Greene IMO does have the raw tools; he is physically superior in his movement, more competent with ball in hand, a better kicker and seems pretty dependable in solo moments. Qualities that are not dependant on the quality of others....

If the entire backline is in disarray then why would you keep a guy who moves like he's stuck in the mud most of the time and, when left to act on his own, throws hospital passes or cut out balls into Row Z at first receiver. I understand the backline is a unit, but units are also made up of individuals and if the 'director' (ie. The 10) of this unit isn't up to scratch then how can we expect the rest to perform.

 

[Sully]

Okay. We get it.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[Oldschool]

Good weekend for the Reds age group rugby. The u15s, u17s and u20s all winning. Got the talent coming through, just need to keep them in Qld.

 

[TSR]

Nice to hear that the talent coming through has had success.

I was thinking during the Waratahs Rebels game that at least Qld & NSW were the two teams who should be able to most easily replace talent, with the two largest nursery school of players in the country.

Of course, there is a lot more to it than that, but at least the raw materials are there. We just need to do a lot better with converting the raw materials to top line talent.

 

[Mr Doug]

Thanks for your comprehensive reply (#5339), re the 2016 Reds Board, Reg.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Suppose Greene will be the next "talent" to leave Ballymore if not given a chance soon.

If Jake is the "chosen one" Greene will have to move to get his real shot at Super 15 and above.

 

[USARugger]

On the topic of talented youngsters, I'd like to appeal to those here much closer to QLD Rugby than I currently am..

In the last 5-8 years how much young, Super Rugby level talent has Queensland actually lost to other interstate franchises (not including Hanson, as that seemed more of a contracting issue than anything) ? The only real name that comes to mind is McMahon.

I'm asking because this isn't the only rugby board I read and there seems to be a strong sentiment amongst QLD supporters elsewhere (Reddit, especially) that a major reason the Reds are in such a rut is not just the coaching, but because interstate and some international clubs have bought so much of the young talent from QLD.

I just can't seem to rationalize that viewpoint in my head. If anything, it seems that the Reds have done a fairly good job of retaining young guys who are coming up through the QLD systems (L. Gill is a senior play in my mind and an entirely different kettle of fish) and have the potential to make the next step up.

Am I totally wrong here?

 

[gel]

Good weekend for the Reds age group rugby. The u15s, u17s and u20s all winning. Got the talent coming through, just need to keep them in Qld.

That is good news indeed.

Augers well for the future of the Brumbies, Rebels and Force.........

 

[Purce]

On the topic of talented youngsters, I'd like to appeal to those here much closer to QLD Rugby than I currently am..

In the last 5-8 years how much young, Super Rugby level talent has Queensland actually lost to other interstate franchises (not including Hanson, as that seemed more of a contracting issue than anything) ? The only real name that comes to mind is McMahon.

I'm asking because this isn't the only rugby board I read and there seems to be a strong sentiment amongst QLD supporters elsewhere (Reddit, especially) that a major reason the Reds are in such a rut is not just the coaching, but because interstate and some international clubs have bought so much of the young talent from QLD.

I just can't seem to rationalize that viewpoint in my head. If anything, it seems that the Reds have done a fairly good job of retaining young guys who are coming up through the QLD systems (L. Gill is a senior play in my mind and an entirely different kettle of fish) and have the potential to make the next step up.

Am I totally wrong here?

Off the top of my head...
Angus Cotteral, Matt To'omua, Tevita Kurindrani, jr Rasolea, Matt Lucas, Brad Wilkin, Jessie Mogg, Harley Fox, Ben Meehan, Ah Wong, JP & Ruan Smith.

Young players who player a couple seasons not wanted by Reds
Lance, Prior, Toua, Butler, Anae, Enever, Placid, Morohan

I've probably missed a couple or got a couple wrong but I'm pretty sure that's reasonably accurate

 

[Scrubber2050]

+ Harris, Lucas Taps

 

[swingpass]

well realistically you cant keep them all. your point i suppose, is have the wrong ones been kept and the right ones let go or not wanted ?

 

[Highlander35]

Sam Johnson and the Toolis Twins are both Queenslanders playing in Scotland. Ben's the talented one, and he's got his Scots cap, Alex isn't quite at the same level yet.