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Reds 2016

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No4918

John Hipwell (52)
This is interesting. Whom exactly was responsible for this 'poor off-field recruitment' to replace the 2011 complement? Obviously, this alleged assessment concerned numerous parties, buy not RG or JC.


Could only be Cordingley or RG. This is crazy, one of the reasons for 2014's failure was RG was left with a squad and needed time to build his own. Now he isn't responsible?:confused:

Going to be fun (in a sad way) watching them contradict themselves for the next 12 months.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Could only be Cordingley or RG. This is crazy, one of the reasons for 2014's failure was RG was left with a squad and needed time to build his own. Now he isn't responsible?:confused:

Going to be fun (in a sad way) watching them contradict themselves for the next 12 months.

Totally 4918. I have often thought it'd be a masochistic version of fun to build up a dossier of all the QRU's/RG's statements of what explains their multiple poor performances, all their multifarious excuses, all the blaming of players and so so, and in the process show compellingly how virtually none of it is ever consistent, or stays the same for long, or really makes any coherent, rational sense over time.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Richard Graham would have to be the worst coach in history to fuck up with the support staff he has next year. He'd have to be the worst coach on the staff including Brad Thorn who has never coached. If the Reds don't make the Semi's next year I'll..... I'll.....I'll get really angry and .....stuff
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I actually believe that the Reds could be successful next year.

Its reasonable to think that Stiles and Thorn should have our pigs going really well at set piece and with the addition of Marsh they should be fitter and stronger which should have them going well around the park also.

O'Connor should be able to at the very least, get some shape and structure in our backs and with the pigs going well the lack of experience should be to some degree compensated by, hopefully clean front foot ball a lot of the time.

Graham is actually a good defence coach and if he can replicate the defence that we had when Link was in charge and D was his thing then teams will have to work to score points.

As said above, Marsh should improve the S&C in general and hopefully we should see a reduction in injuries, which is an absolute element of every successful Super Rugby team.

Which brings me back to my opening sentence. We could be successful in 2016; and I don't know how I feel about that. If we make the semis or better in 2016 then I guess that you would have to say that they got it right. Whether they did it in spite of RG or because of him doesn't really matter in the short term. And this is the thing. The Reds board seem to be letting it all ride on the hope of a short term gain. None of the decisions being made seem to be centred around long term sustainable success.

As a fan I need that short term success, but I would prefer a long term solution.

Weird rant over.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
This has been reported, and considered unfair, before. Personally I don't care if it is unfair, fans beware...

"We can thank Matt but I hope nobody starts romanticising his tenure at Leinster where he took the best running team in Europe at the time and ran their creative running streak into the ground." (Fan comment).

The Leinster fans saw the MOC attack as one plan only. Now "one plan" seems a vast improvement over the RG "no clue". But if that plan replicates the Leinster fan criticisms of "nothing but forward pods up the centre" - are Reds fans going to be happy?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating but things are pretty odd right now. I really like the rest of the coaching team but you have to wonder about "esprit de corp" as things go forward with personality types described as "school master" (RG) and "don't argue" (MOC). And Herbet not RG as Head Coach apparently making this appointment.

I'll give O'Conner one thing, his success rate dwarfs RG.
 

Thinker

Darby Loudon (17)
A few of things we need to realise:

1. Thorn isn't coaching the Reds, he is assisting Gilmore at the U20 level

2. As much as I love a good scrum, it is not the be all and end all. We have probably had the most dominant scrum the Reds have had in the professional era. We have also had our 2 worst seasons.

3. All this love in for the young NRC guys is great, but they aren't anywhere near Super Rugby ready. It's odd that the majority of guys "discovered" in last year's NRC all played for the Force, Reds and Rebels. Not the two teams that actually did well. As great as the NRC is it is a TV product that isn't shown on TV, not a pathway for guys to step up to the next level. Unless something is done to incentivize defence the players are only getting half a rugby education and it isn't the half the Reds need.

Laurie Weekes was one of the 2 legitimate discoveries of the ARC. By legitimate discovery I mean not someone who had already played Super Rugby or someone who had played for Australia every year since he was 16 and had spent 2 years in a pro environment but was just too young to play Super Rugby yet. It took Weekes 7 years to go from ARC to Wallabies. In an era when we had no real dominant tightheads. It takes time and isn't something that can be rushed because we have a poor administration and coach.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I actually believe that the Reds could be successful next year.

Its reasonable to think that Stiles and Thorn should have our pigs going really well at set piece and with the addition of Marsh they should be fitter and stronger which should have them going well around the park also.

O'Connor should be able to at the very least, get some shape and structure in our backs and with the pigs going well the lack of experience should be to some degree compensated by, hopefully clean front foot ball a lot of the time.

Graham is actually a good defence coach and if he can replicate the defence that we had when Link was in charge and D was his thing then teams will have to work to score points.

As said above, Marsh should improve the S&C in general and hopefully we should see a reduction in injuries, which is an absolute element of every successful Super Rugby team.

Which brings me back to my opening sentence. We could be successful in 2016; and I don't know how I feel about that. If we make the semis or better in 2016 then I guess that you would have to say that they got it right. Whether they did it in spite of RG or because of him doesn't really matter in the short term. And this is the thing. The Reds board seem to be letting it all ride on the hope of a short term gain. None of the decisions being made seem to be centred around long term sustainable success.

As a fan I need that short term success, but I would prefer a long term solution.

Weird rant over.

gel, nice, indeed inspiring, to see that faith hath no bounds ;) .

Well, it could well be a world rugby first if a proven very poor HC in Lazarus with a triple by-pass mode can be overcome with (a) superior Assistant Coaches and (b) a green and largely unproven squad, such that, from this aggregated transformation, a rapid rise back up to a Finals-level result is attained.

I posted months back when the RG as Lazarus scenario was first mooted - to vast hoots then of 'surely that'll never happen' - and the QRU 'Independent Review' was also announced that this whole situation paralleled remarkably that which occurred post RWC 2011 when JO'N in an anxious fluster promised a near identical 'independent review' of Wallaby operations and coaching.

That late 2011/early 2012 review (largely done by ex-Wallabies on the ARU board) resulted in (c) Deans keeping his job as the declared 'best man for it' whilst (d) all his Assistant Coaches from 2011 were sacked and a whole new lot were brought in. This was all billed as a crucial transformation of the Deans regime, and one that would rapidly improve the Wallaby performances under Deans.

Sadly, but predictably, no such thing occurred. Deans ultimately was sacked in ignominy as we went down badly in the 2013 BIL series.
 
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Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I'm not sure that gel would want that diatribe attributed to him RedsHappy! ;)
To be frank, my expectations of next year are about as low as they get. I bought the hype this season as evidenced by my Reds season preview I did for the front page at the start of the year. At this stage, I am expecting next season to be a failure.
But it's not a forgone conclusion. They could be successful.
I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time that a rubbish HC has done well off the back of the talent of his/her assistants. You're probably right though in saying that it would be a first that a proven rubbish HC could do it though!
The other point I forgot to add earlier was that the playing group seems to be fairly United and almost galvanised in their desire to turn it around despite RG being at the helm. Anyway, expectations are low but hope is always high.
 
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Aussie D

Desmond Connor (43)
Any Brumbies fans / Canberra locals rate Matt O'Connor as a coach? He was with the Vikings IIRC in the 2007 ARC and around the super rugby team for a few years. What is the perception of his coaching skills? I do recall rumours he had trouble fitting his massive ego through the door.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Over or under O'Connor to be head coach by round 5

I think he will be head coach by round 5 (end of)

If this is true then Herbert is operating quite independently, which is quite interesting. Not at all sure however that it is a massive step.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I'm not saying that O'Connor will be the saviour but maybe give the guy a go before we get stuck into him. Yes, some of the Irish fans are less than complimentary about him but there's a hell of a lot of politics involved there too.
I recall (as I was one of them) many people saying that the appointment of Link was going to be the death of QLD Rugby. He only knew how to play 10man rugby apparently and had just been sacked from his European gig.
Just give the guy a go.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
@Scoey gets a like because I certainly get what he is saying.

@Redshappy gets a like for attributing to me something that's not typical of my recent "ranty" efforts.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
I'm not saying that O'Connor will be the saviour but maybe give the guy a go before we get stuck into him. Yes, some of the Irish fans are less than complimentary about him but there's a hell of a lot of politics involved there too.
I recall (as I was one of them) many people saying that the appointment of Link was going to be the death of QLD Rugby. He only knew how to play 10man rugby apparently and had just been sacked from his European gig.
Just give the guy a go.

I'm happy to place optimistic enthusiasm into the Reds positivism thread. More reality is needed here.

I'd possibly be willing to be guided to your thinking, IF we had MOC over RG. But it's not the case. A really nice power struggle seems to have been built in. It's not about giving the guy a go. It's about giving RG a go while controlling a bloke who should have his job.
 
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