Reds 2015

[No4918]

Interesting that it still explicitly a two horse race for Wallaby 7.

Let's just see. Cheika seems the type to play his cards close so I wouldn't be putting too much stock in media musings.

 

[bloodred]

gees I hate comments like that. Fine, don't buy another membership. That's your right.

But a comment like the bolded one is just ignorance. They have a marketing department whose job it is to market the team and game.

They have a high performance department whose job it is to prepare the team.

Just because one area of the business isn't performing does not mean the other one should cop flack. What, you want the graphic design team in the team meetings helping them come up with strategies to beat the Crusaders? Perhaps the Finance team should be out on the field holding tackle bags for the boys?

Unfunny comments such as "they'd probably do a better job" expected, but not appreciated.

Reg, you have missed my point. It is not the marketing department I am upset with. More the use (mis-use) of our player recruitment funds to sign players who have "marketability". This blurs the line in regard to their effectiveness to do the job player wise. One of the players signed has taken the salary of 5 standard S15 contracts. For someone who has not produced that is alarming

 

[Train Without a Station]

What player's were signed for "marketing"?

JOC (James O'Connor)? This is a guy who indicated he wanted to come back to Australia. He had close to 50 test caps, was never anything less than a first choice starting player and was unwanted by any other franchise. If the Reds paid a lot for him, it's not that they've wasted money for marketing, it's that they've very poorly negotiated when they were in a position of power.

Then there's Hunt. The ARU also chipped in to his contract did they not? But most importantly, he wasn't signed solely for marketing. We needed a fullback. He had French Top 14 experience, and played Australian Schoolboys whilst also being an elite player in a similar code.

He came to the Reds with even more runs on the board than Folau to the Waratahs. Folau was not even a league fullback and adapted perfectly. Hunt was an NRL and representative fullback, had played rugby in that position and is a more well rounded footballer (though inferior athlete). It was hardly unreasonable for the Reds to consider he would be a success at 15 once he got game time under his belt.

 

[Godfrey]

Also the marketability of players is sometimes in reference to their salary being partially compensated. I.e. it's alright to spend a bit more on Quade Cooper as some of that money is made back by his marketability.

 

[bloodred]

Then there's Hunt. The ARU also chipped in to his contract did they not? But most importantly, he wasn't signed solely for marketing. We needed a fullback. He had French Top 14 experience, and played Australian Schoolboys whilst also being an elite player in a similar code.

He came to the Reds with even more runs on the board than Folau to the Waratahs. Folau was not even a league fullback and adapted perfectly. Hunt was an NRL and representative fullback, had played rugby in that position and is a more well rounded footballer (though inferior athlete). It was hardly unreasonable for the Reds to consider he would be a success at 15 once he got game time under his belt.

Well this is where we dis-agree. I believe that this signing was motivated by marketability, we paid overs for a player that was good at school! There are shit loads of them. Played a half season at Biarritz (?). French rugby is not a great measure. I'm not saying that he wasn't a very good league player, but he was pretty ordinary AFL player and was chasing dollars which the Reds paid. Not a good decision in my opinion

 

[Braveheart81]

Well this is where we dis-agree. I believe that this signing was motivated by marketability, we paid overs for a player that was good at school! There are shit loads of them. Played a half season at Biarritz (?). French rugby is not a great measure. I'm not saying that he wasn't a very good league player, but he was pretty ordinary AFL player and was chasing dollars which the Reds paid. Not a good decision in my opinion

Did you think he was a terrible signing before the season started?

The fact that the Reds managed to get the ARU to pay for part of Hunt's contract would indicate that the Reds weren't the only ones who thought he'd be a success.

 

[the sabanator]

I don't think Hunt should be written off yet. He's played very few games this year in a very disrupted year. It took Folau a while to become a good rugby union player. I'd still back Hunt to play very well next year with a full pre-season and getting some of his issues behind him.

 

[bloodred]

Did you think he was a terrible signing before the season started?

The fact that the Reds managed to get the ARU to pay for part of Hunt's contract would indicate that the Reds weren't the only ones who thought he'd be a success.

Yes I did, but I need to confess that I'm against signing highly paid players from other codes. It doesn't do rugby much good, our talent looks elsewhere and if they flop we look silly. I read that the ARU would not top up his contract but as you have said they probably did. I would feel better if we kept a lot of players like McMahon etc

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes I did, but I need to confess that I'm against signing highly paid players from other codes. It doesn't do rugby much good, our talent looks elsewhere and if they flop we look silly. I read that the ARU would not top up his contract but as you have said they probably did. I would feel better if we kept a lot of players like McMahon etc

Did you think Folau was a terrible signing?

 

[bloodred]

I don't think Hunt should be written off yet. He's played very few games this year in a very disrupted year. It took Folau a while to become a good rugby union player. I'd still back Hunt to play very well next year with a full pre-season and getting some of his issues behind him.

You could be correct Sabanator, but he already has caused big issues with the long standing rugby supporters. I hope you are correct because he is being paid a lot of money

 

[No4918]

Well this is where we dis-agree. I believe that this signing was motivated by marketability, we paid overs for a player that was good at school! There are shit loads of them. Played a half season at Biarritz (?). French rugby is not a great measure. I'm not saying that he wasn't a very good league player, but he was pretty ordinary AFL player and was chasing dollars which the Reds paid. Not a good decision in my opinion

Everyone is a genius with the benefit of hindsight. As others have said, he had better rugby credentials than Folau who turned out to be a massive success. Yes he has been disappointing so far but he debuted at 10, missed 6 weeks due to suspension and a few with injury. Hard to judge someone after a couple of games.

Hopefully a full NRC season does him wonders. If the Reds had there time again they might have thrown him into last years NRC as they seem to have underestimated the time it would take to get a feel for the game. That Folau got it so quickly shows what a freak he is.

 

[bloodred]

Did you think Folau was a terrible signing?

Didn't I just say that in my post?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well said No4918.

You cannot fairly pass judgement on how things turned out. Based on what the Reds knew at the time, was he a good signing? Absolutely.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes I did, but I need to confess that I'm against signing highly paid players from other codes. It doesn't do rugby much good, our talent looks elsewhere and if they flop we look silly.

But if it works, it's fantastic for Australian Rugby.

I totally get that people have a generally negative attitude towards signing league players but Folau has been a phenomenal success and back in the day, so was Tuqiri. We've had mixed success with some of the other converts which shows that it's by no means an exact science.

I think all sports need some big names because they do a lot to attract the casual fans.

It would be great if success and marketability in professional sport was purely driven by on field success but it isn't. Personalities and marketability play a big role. When things align and players are both exceptional on the field and generate substantial interest from the media and public then it's a bonus.

 

[No4918]

I just checked the IPCC report and found no mention of the the QRU board or RG whatsoever. Incredible. Thought it was a sure bet that they would be up for a lot of the blame after reading some of the stuff on here. Yes it sucks to be losing but blaming the marketing department or RG/Cordingley for recruiting players to be marketed is just amazing.

 

[Braveheart81]

No4918 made the excellent point yesterday that your support should be for the players and what the Reds stand for in general.

This is a team that has existed for 130 years and represents Queensland Rugby.

The board, the coach, the CEO etc. will all come and go and the players will change but the team will remain.

I understand that people's interest will decrease and they may care less passionately about the team for a while but the way some people are acting, it would seem like the QRU is making specific decisions just to spite their fans which is quite ridiculous.

 

[Tomikin]

Train Without a Station said:
Well said No4918.

You cannot fairly pass judgement on how things turned out. Based on what the Reds knew at the time, was he a good signing? Absolutely.

What we can pass judgement on is they hired a shitty coach gave him a year's training, a year in the job and now in his third year with his players his gone rubbish..

Doesn't matter how good a player is if the coach is rubbish and throw in some injuries it's never going go well.

Sent from my D6503 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

 

[Floggn']

What player's were signed for "marketing"?

You could put the Faainga Twins there. They are overpaid.

 

[Wilson]

Are they? They're regular starters and saia was pretty widely regarded as one of the best wallabies on tour last year. How much are they getting that they qualify as 'overpaid'.

 

[Dancin_Digby]

Caderyn neville signed for 2016

 

[hammertimethere]

I hear that Quade will be back in 3ish weeks