No4918
John Hipwell (52)
Yes. It is one of those things that every coach in every sport ever says at the end of a season.
Reds 2015
- Thread starter No4918
- Start date
- Status
Yes. It is one of those things that every coach in every sport ever says at the end of a season.
T
TOCC
Guest
Fair point, I think the issue is that in a successful season people aren't clamouring for change, In the case of the current Reds season people are clamouring for change.. This is reflected in the media, people will be interested in articles relevant to the reds poor season and how they are going to improve.
I doubt the reds held a press release to announce a season review, likely scenario is that the topic came up in the course of an interview and it's the only part which was published.
T
tranquility
Guest
If RG lets Quirky go, while he has a torn ACL - I will deadlset get on the next flight to Brisbane and punch Woody in his adams apple.
Quirky is a dyed in the wool QLDer, he will want to play out his career in QLD.
Although, I will say that I think Browning is the better player and adds more to the side. However we cannot discard these players. That is not how it works, especially those who are committed to the cause.
We still have a bloody good nucleus of a side, the last thing we want to be doing is getting rid of blokes before they have peaked who still want to bleed red.
Can anyone one here imagine Ed playing for the Brumbies, or worse yet the Tahs? As an Easts boy, the thought of it makes me sick.
I am confident, that what comes out in the wash will be that the whole thing is hogwash.
Quirky is a dyed in the wool QLDer, he will want to play out his career in QLD.
Although, I will say that I think Browning is the better player and adds more to the side. However we cannot discard these players. That is not how it works, especially those who are committed to the cause.
We still have a bloody good nucleus of a side, the last thing we want to be doing is getting rid of blokes before they have peaked who still want to bleed red.
Can anyone one here imagine Ed playing for the Brumbies, or worse yet the Tahs? As an Easts boy, the thought of it makes me sick.
I am confident, that what comes out in the wash will be that the whole thing is hogwash.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I've got no issues with any decision to discard any of these players. Making the decision after one bad year where the only real change is the coach is what I do have an issue with. If Quirk comes back and has a bad season, he would have exhausted any credit he had in the bank from 2013. But right now I'm more inclined to back Quirk to improve, over Graham.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Disgarding players is a part of any professional sport. Whether a player gets tapped or he taps himself (due to age, injury performance or a combination of all 3) is a fact of life.
The team must evolve or die.
There are a few Reds players that, on an objective view, have not performed to their pay scale this year.
IMO, Will Genia, James Horwill are the 2 biggies. Theye have both had moments of brilliance (as Horwill did 2 weeks ago) but there has been no consistency. The top players need to perform week in and week out - their performances lift the performance of others.
RG already knows what has gone wrong in 2014.
The question is: "How am I / we going to fix it for 2015" or "Knowing what went wrong in 2014, do I have the balls / brains (or both) to fix it?"
The team must evolve or die.
There are a few Reds players that, on an objective view, have not performed to their pay scale this year.
IMO, Will Genia, James Horwill are the 2 biggies. Theye have both had moments of brilliance (as Horwill did 2 weeks ago) but there has been no consistency. The top players need to perform week in and week out - their performances lift the performance of others.
RG already knows what has gone wrong in 2014.
The question is: "How am I / we going to fix it for 2015" or "Knowing what went wrong in 2014, do I have the balls / brains (or both) to fix it?"
T
tranquility
Guest
James Horwill does not get payed very much I think you will find. Genia on the other hand. Discarding players like Quirky, who are not on big bucks is how franchises implode in my opinion.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I think it's best not to just wildly speculate on the pay grade of players. Obviously the only knowledge we have is what's reported, but just assuming that Will or James are on a motza would be foolish.
Let's not forget that Will for example knocked back a more lucrative offer from the Force last year. One must assume we haven't gone and broke the bank to keep him.
Let's not forget that Will for example knocked back a more lucrative offer from the Force last year. One must assume we haven't gone and broke the bank to keep him.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Mate, I think we should keep blokes like Quirk - no question, puts his heart in every week, thatll do me.
Accept your opinion re James's pay BUT he is the Reds captain with a large ARU top-up (based that he was the Wallaby captain as well). I would honestly be gobsmacked if he wasn't on at least $600K whereas I think Genia and Cooper are nearing the $800K mark (although I would expect both would be downgraded - that in itself may "force" them OS)
Accept your opinion re James's pay BUT he is the Reds captain with a large ARU top-up (based that he was the Wallaby captain as well). I would honestly be gobsmacked if he wasn't on at least $600K whereas I think Genia and Cooper are nearing the $800K mark (although I would expect both would be downgraded - that in itself may "force" them OS)
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Understand that but jeez wouldn't a release free up some dollars for a FEW new signings
T
tranquility
Guest
Who mate? Who are these potential signings that you would be willing to risk losing our best players?
You need to remember that a player's salary is largely based on their past performance. I.e. that's why they're worth so much.
Whilst getting rid of one of your highest paid players does free up money to sign other players, those players have to be available to begin with.
You don't make a less good player into a better player by paying them more and you don't fix any of your problems by drafting in a player from another team for significantly more than what they're worth because you've got free cash. It just causes more problems later.
Whilst getting rid of one of your highest paid players does free up money to sign other players, those players have to be available to begin with.
You don't make a less good player into a better player by paying them more and you don't fix any of your problems by drafting in a player from another team for significantly more than what they're worth because you've got free cash. It just causes more problems later.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I don't want to lose our best PERFORMING players. That would be downright stupid.
I agree with Braveheart that a players' "worth" always works in arrears.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
A measured approach needs to be taken.
If James Horwill is the best lock on the market, then he's worth the money. That's the sum of it. Same with any other player.
It's foolish to get caught up with players not living up to our expectations of them and what we assume they are earning. They're value is relative to the market.
If James Horwill is the best lock on the market, then he's worth the money. That's the sum of it. Same with any other player.
It's foolish to get caught up with players not living up to our expectations of them and what we assume they are earning. They're value is relative to the market.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
You cite Quirk and then talk about performing players, then single out Horwill as a key under-performer. I think that's incorrect though. Horwill has been below par but Quirk has had a poor 2014 really. Horwill has seemed to improve as he gets more match fit where as Quirk peaked in early 2013 and trailed off since then.
I don't get the Horwill bashing. He keeps getting compared to 2011 Horwill who was in great form in a rampant forward pack with a rampant backline. Compare him to 2014 locks. Sure there are a few better but there are a hell of a lot worse. And he and Simmons are one of the best combinations running around.
I thought the wallabies did him a world of good. Looks like it wore off a bit.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
I thought the wallabies did him a world of good. Looks like it wore off a bit.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
i certainly can't. he's not good enough and the coaches at the Brumbies and Tahs know it.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Pretty stupid comment. Quirk was clearly superior to Butler in 2013. Brumbies seemed more than happy to pick him up.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Absolutely agree - you don't have to be a Brain Surgeon to guestimate what the big boys who have a lot of their stuff aired, are on. What I don't have a clue is what blokes like Quirk, Anae, Daley, Browning etc etc are on , but they would be "cheap" compared to the big boys.
It's all about performance to get to the top of the payscale. Its equally important that performance be the determining factor in retaining large contracts.
Like when QC (Quade Cooper) signed with the ARU and he supposedly said he wanted $1 more than Giteau. They agreed and he immediately put pen to paper.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Why is unfair to compare him to 2011? He was in great form then and the Wallabies need that form badly. Retallick is the best lock in the world easily (and I'll argue currently in the best lock form of all time - guy is mutant freak he's that good) and Whitelock would be the 2nd best lock in the world. We need to match these guys if we're to win the Bledisloe, Horwill is the only one that probably can and we need that 2011 form back. I said after the Rebels game that it was too early to say he's back because what's the bet he doesn't reproduce next game and he didn't. The NZ locks play consistently week in week out and we need James to as well.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
It's unfair because he can still be playing well without being at that form, yet people will say he is playing poorly. It's rating people on a double standard. He's only as good as everybody around him.
He could play better than 2011 but if the level around him picks up even more it may be inadequate. At the same time he could play worse, but if he is one of the top 5 locks on form, then it's unfair to say he's playing badly.
He could play better than 2011 but if the level around him picks up even more it may be inadequate. At the same time he could play worse, but if he is one of the top 5 locks on form, then it's unfair to say he's playing badly.
- Status