T
Train Without a Station
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One was essentially the lovable fuck up (Beale) and the other was the ring leader who created the trouble and escaped the fallout (JOC (James O'Connor)).
Reds 2015
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Reds 2015.
These last games may very well determine RG's future at the Reds and probably a coach at Super 15 level.
The same can be said in respect of James Horwill. There is discontent with his captaincy. A return to great form may alleviate the pressures on him.
Carmichael, contrary to some opinion is no mug. He would cut both if he believes that the way forward is to jettison players or a coach.
The culture at the Reds was a undefinable thing. It is tattered ATM and needs to be restored quickly. Its not just about bringing in a JOC (James O'Connor) and/or C. Hunt, its about the team, its culture, its strength from within, playing for your mates, playing for the jersey.
Just my rant for today
These last games may very well determine RG's future at the Reds and probably a coach at Super 15 level.
The same can be said in respect of James Horwill. There is discontent with his captaincy. A return to great form may alleviate the pressures on him.
Carmichael, contrary to some opinion is no mug. He would cut both if he believes that the way forward is to jettison players or a coach.
The culture at the Reds was a undefinable thing. It is tattered ATM and needs to be restored quickly. Its not just about bringing in a JOC (James O'Connor) and/or C. Hunt, its about the team, its culture, its strength from within, playing for your mates, playing for the jersey.
Just my rant for today
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Is this C.Hunt the brother of Karmichael ..Special K.. something like Special Cornflakes ? ..
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Reg - at some point in time loyalty and performance have to be reconciled.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Nah Reg we've had one shit season after 4 good ones and making the finals in 3 so he's a shit captain. Even though he was rightfully picked as one of the top 5 locks for the Wallaby squad and performed as such in game, fuck it he's a shit player too. Plus he's 29 - way over the hill. When was the last time a lock over 25 even performed to any decent level? Tight forwards is a young mans game.
In fact I heard he murders puppies for fun too.
In fact I heard he murders puppies for fun too.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
In seriousness then Scrubber, name the better captain and lock out there. As per my comments about 20 pages back actually, give me two names. One to replace Horwill with and the other to replace EOD with since I heard he is moving on too and regardless is consider the 3rd best so obviously isn't good enough to take over.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
TWAS,
being 29 has nothing to do with it. My comments are based on performance.
james was deadset lucky to make the wallaby squad (on performance) - He made it on experience. It seems to me that Mckenzie is looking for new locks and James is on the outer. As soon as Carter is fit he will get the run on next to Simmo. Jones was only average. Skelton was good. Simmons is a certainty. I don't think James will be in the RWC squad (based on current performance)
EOD moving on says to me that he sees no pathway ATM for him - Players get pissed when incumbants keep getting chosen when they shouldn't on form. ( I don't know if that is the case here but soulds a reasonable proposition to me)
I probably would favour Quade as Captain and slipper as Vice or vice versa.
I acknowledge your sarcasim. James HAS been a fantastic Reds player and his contributions awesome BUT ?????.
I am trying to be objective and make comments about how we move forward.
I was gobsmacked and dismayed to hear that James murders puppies for fun.
being 29 has nothing to do with it. My comments are based on performance.
james was deadset lucky to make the wallaby squad (on performance) - He made it on experience. It seems to me that Mckenzie is looking for new locks and James is on the outer. As soon as Carter is fit he will get the run on next to Simmo. Jones was only average. Skelton was good. Simmons is a certainty. I don't think James will be in the RWC squad (based on current performance)
EOD moving on says to me that he sees no pathway ATM for him - Players get pissed when incumbants keep getting chosen when they shouldn't on form. ( I don't know if that is the case here but soulds a reasonable proposition to me)
I probably would favour Quade as Captain and slipper as Vice or vice versa.
I acknowledge your sarcasim. James HAS been a fantastic Reds player and his contributions awesome BUT ?????.
I am trying to be objective and make comments about how we move forward.
I was gobsmacked and dismayed to hear that James murders puppies for fun.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I don't want to go too much into specifics, and I don't know the details, but I'd say both men were probably subjected to a different kind of upbringing with a different level of privilege.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Scrubber. Ed's 32 years old. His only pathway is in to golden oldies.
His contribution is still one of the top locks in Australia. That's diminished from previously being the top lock.
Carter is better as a lock around the park. Appears to be equal in the scrum. Is inferior (though by a lesser margin or difference) in the line out.
Will Skelton is better as a ball runner and has a greater impact in all collisions. His work rate is also dramatically lower. His scrummaging is inferior and his line out ability is not at the level you would expect of a lock.
Simmons is better in the line out. Inferior in the scrum. Similar work rate, slightly less impact in contact.
Jones is an inferior scrummager. He is an inferior line out option. He makes less tackles the stats say. He has more runs and breaks more tackles.
James Horwill isn't at his best around the park. Though since then he has improved dramatically in the set piece. He still gets over the gain line and still puts guys at rucks on their ass. As an all-round lock performing all functions he is probably Australia's best (with Simmons and Carter being probably equal second in different ways). We don't however need that and a half and half combo is what we tend to go for.
He is deadest lucky to make the Wallaby squad if you only pick it by the highlight reel. Most people discounted Carter as making the squad too.
His value isn't based on where he is compared to where you think he was/should be. It's where he is compared to opposition and competition for his spot.
His contribution is still one of the top locks in Australia. That's diminished from previously being the top lock.
Carter is better as a lock around the park. Appears to be equal in the scrum. Is inferior (though by a lesser margin or difference) in the line out.
Will Skelton is better as a ball runner and has a greater impact in all collisions. His work rate is also dramatically lower. His scrummaging is inferior and his line out ability is not at the level you would expect of a lock.
Simmons is better in the line out. Inferior in the scrum. Similar work rate, slightly less impact in contact.
Jones is an inferior scrummager. He is an inferior line out option. He makes less tackles the stats say. He has more runs and breaks more tackles.
James Horwill isn't at his best around the park. Though since then he has improved dramatically in the set piece. He still gets over the gain line and still puts guys at rucks on their ass. As an all-round lock performing all functions he is probably Australia's best (with Simmons and Carter being probably equal second in different ways). We don't however need that and a half and half combo is what we tend to go for.
He is deadest lucky to make the Wallaby squad if you only pick it by the highlight reel. Most people discounted Carter as making the squad too.
His value isn't based on where he is compared to where you think he was/should be. It's where he is compared to opposition and competition for his spot.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Generally our forwards have been good and at worst adequate. We've just lacked go forward from the back row which would allow for front foot ball.
If a line bending 8 came along they would be perfect for a Browning, Gill, Insert name here, Beau back row and bench combo.
If a line bending 8 came along they would be perfect for a Browning, Gill, Insert name here, Beau back row and bench combo.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I think most posters on G&G didn't pick James a a lock in the run-on side - simply based on his performances in past 12 months.
Neither did McKenzie (except after injury to Carter). Mckenzie's thoughts prevailed. I do however acknowledge your in-depth analysis of each lock
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I'm not saying he's our best lock. But to say he's past it is wrong. He is clearly one of the top 5 locks in Australia still and depending on what you want still offers a lot.
sorry but you are GROSSLY undervaluing the contribution of Kev to the QRU. On-field alone I maintain it is in the top 5 plaeyers, even in current form. Off-field he's #1. Quade's great with kids, as is Will. But Kev is the king of all. He's on the board, mingles easily with corporates, is engaged in the organisation.
And is still one of our best players.
Getting rid of him would be ludicrous.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I believe James is contracted to the end of 2015.
He obviously wishes to be a part of RWC and then head overseas to finish career and earn the big $$$$$ (although he would be on a truckload now with ARU captaincy top-up).
If he doesn't in fact make the RWC squad then he may consider 2015 a lost opportunity. He needs to get back to his absolute best - anything else will be insufficent, both from a Reds and Wallabies perspective. I genuinely wish him well.
He obviously wishes to be a part of RWC and then head overseas to finish career and earn the big $$$$$ (although he would be on a truckload now with ARU captaincy top-up).
If he doesn't in fact make the RWC squad then he may consider 2015 a lost opportunity. He needs to get back to his absolute best - anything else will be insufficent, both from a Reds and Wallabies perspective. I genuinely wish him well.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Maybe, but I get the impression that (as opposed to many athletes) he doesn't purely need the cash, as his post-rugby career is well in hand.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
No problems Reg (and I agree re his pulling power etc, Board (because he's captain I assume)
Simple question: Do we keep players forever irrespective of performance on the field because they are "magnets"? Surely at some point players that are not playing well, past it, always injured (like Aiden) need to get the tap on the shoulder. Shit otherwise our squad would be full of 30-60 year olds.
The reason we have so much support is the winning culture over the past few years. Players like Quade, Will, and James Horwill add to that, particularly with kids. Wins + Sponsership + Membership = Success
I don't want to go back to the dark days of shitty overall performances, with little crowd support and shithouse sponsership.
That, I suppose, is Jim Carmichael /Slaughter's / RG'S job. In professional sport EVERYONE is accountable - players, coaches and administrators. The secret is to be proactive and not reactive
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Yeah he's from quite a wealthy family. Speculation is he isn't on the best deal he could potentially earn already.
I'm with Reg. Easily one of our top 5 performers this year. Below his absolute best is still better than Leon Power, Hugh Pyle, Caydern Neville, Sam Wykes, Mitch Chapman, Ed O'Donoghue, Tom Staniforth, Luke Jones and any other locks in Australia we want to mention. Let's throw in Dean Mumm and Mark Chisholm too since they're names are occasionally mentioned. So unless some young Bokkies Bothas and Victor Matfields start growing off trees here, insufficient is an incorrect way to describe it.
I'm with Reg. Easily one of our top 5 performers this year. Below his absolute best is still better than Leon Power, Hugh Pyle, Caydern Neville, Sam Wykes, Mitch Chapman, Ed O'Donoghue, Tom Staniforth, Luke Jones and any other locks in Australia we want to mention. Let's throw in Dean Mumm and Mark Chisholm too since they're names are occasionally mentioned. So unless some young Bokkies Bothas and Victor Matfields start growing off trees here, insufficient is an incorrect way to describe it.
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