Reds 2015

[Quick Hands]

What's your prediction for the Gibson-led Tahs?

Hard shoes to fill, but he is well-respected by the players in his own right and is part of the current game and training structure. I'm sure he'll have some of his own ideas, but as he has some ownership of the way the Waratahs are currently playing I don't he'll feel the need to change too much.

 

[redstragic]

And another thing, they should seriously let Slipper off the hook on those "From the locker room" post match videoes. Must be absolute torture for him with nothing positive to say with the way our season is going and it adds nothing to anything.

 

[Train Without a Station]

And any sensible observer could have predicted the end result of the Graham appointment to the Reds and the Foley appointment to the Force. In both cases it's just like watching a bad movie - you know how it's going to end and you can almost predict all the steps along the way.

Did any if you sensible observers predict the Force's narrow miss of the finals in 2014.

If you want to bag coaches for their failures, you must give credit for any success too.

 

[Dctarget]

James Horwill has been suspended for a week for pleading guilty to striking.

 

[Gnostic]

Did any if you sensible observers predict the Force's narrow miss of the finals in 2014.

If you want to bag coaches for their failures, you must give credit for any success too.

If you have a look back on what I and many others have posted, the risk averse game plan of Foley, as played at the Tahs under him and Hickey will often get the percentage wins. It will get a team close on many occasions and grind out a close wins as well. That is good in the Super competition as the bonus point structure will get the side close to the finals or into the final 8 to 6. The problem comes when they play the top sides that limited game plan will only succeed when the top sides have an off night. So yes it was predicted and no I don't believe credit should be given to a coach who has developed nothing in the entire time as a head coach. The Force play exactly the same as the Tahs did under Foley, and that game plan and mode of play from McKenzie, Hickey and finally Foley all but destroyed the support base of the Tahs. It is doing nothing to enhance the Force now, just as RG's incompetence is doing great damage to the marvellous success the Reds have had in building their supporter base.

Rugby is not league with the largely homogeneous product, the overall mode of play and intent is essential to our viewship.

 

[Chris McCracken]

OK, now that I'm pretty sure even RG won't think they can make the finals because - well, because maths, how will the team perform between now and the end of the year?

Will they play better and we see more of what we saw in the opening few minutes?

Will they play aimlessly and regress even further?

If that happens, will the players play themselves out of consideration for the Wallabies?

Will they fall into a cycle of ice dependency and bring handguns onto the field to make sure they at least get a bonus point loss in the next local derby?

I think it's time to make outlandish (or completely well reasoned) suggestions/predictions about where the individuals stand right now.

 

[redstragic]

Will they fall into a cycle of ice dependency and bring handguns onto the field to make sure they at least get a bonus point loss in the next local derby?.

I think Billy Cole from "The Last Boy Scout" was juiced up on painkillers before he took the the field for the L.A Stallions and started shooting players. "water's wet, sky's blue, women have their secrets". Best movie of all time.

 

[RedsHappy]

Bit different - the others had been head coaches elsewhere and done not so well. Gibson has yet to have that chance. Plus, it will depend a bit on what talent he has at his disposal - players and assistant coaches. The 2016 Tahs will have more than a few different names in there I think.

I'd be very positive about Gibson thus far. There is certainly nothing to predict future failure or mediocrity from, unlike the cases of the current Reds, Force and Rebels coaches in terms of their respective prior recent histories.

The Tahs' backs and attack capability generally have improved hugely under Gibson, and thus underpinned the Tahs' recent success. And the Tahs have been able to carefully assess Gibson's man-management, personal style, etc, before promoting him.

Contrast all this with the QRU's approach to the recruitment and continued appointment of RG. It doesn't bear comparison.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If you have a look back on what I and many others have posted, the risk averse game plan of Foley, as played at the Tahs under him and Hickey will often get the percentage wins. It will get a team close on many occasions and grind out a close wins as well. That is good in the Super competition as the bonus point structure will get the side close to the finals or into the final 8 to 6. The problem comes when they play the top sides that limited game plan will only succeed when the top sides have an off night. So yes it was predicted and no I don't believe credit should be given to a coach who has developed nothing in the entire time as a head coach. The Force play exactly the same as the Tahs did under Foley, and that game plan and mode of play from McKenzie, Hickey and finally Foley all but destroyed the support base of the Tahs. It is doing nothing to enhance the Force now, just as RG's incompetence is doing great damage to the marvellous success the Reds have had in building their supporter base.

Rugby is not league with the largely homogeneous product, the overall mode of play and intent is essential to our viewship.

Gotcha. 9 "flukes" in 2014 and another in round 1 this year against the defending premiers. All with a team that due to location struggles to attract the best talent.

Foley should give away the coaching with that luck and move into blackjack and purchasing lottery tickets.

 

[Quick Hands]

Did any if you sensible observers predict the Force's narrow miss of the finals in 2014.

If you want to bag coaches for their failures, you must give credit for any success too.

Foley in the king of the narrow miss. A couple of close losses and the team just missing the semis were probably the most predictable event of 2014.

I rate Foley quite highly as a forwards coach, and when he has that role the forwards in the team usually go quite well. I have always given him recognition and credit for this.

 

[Gnostic]

Gotcha. 9 "flukes" in 2014 and another in round 1 this year against the defending premiers. All with a team that due to location struggles to attract the best talent.

Foley should give away the coaching with that luck and move into blackjack and purchasing lottery tickets.

Don't be wilfully obtuse. Where did I refer to flukes? There is nothing flukey in those wins they have obtained. They were obtained through hard work and playing percentages. The issue was the same at the Tahs. It does allow the coach to defend himself against critics who argue for better use of the available talent, as they can produce plenty of statistics. Indeed Foley and Hickey did actually do that at the fan forum. But all those disgruntled people who voted with their feet and left the Tahs, and still haven't returned must be blind and ignorant?

Foley was the premier forwards coach in the country, and currently I would have to say he remains right up there in that capacity seeing the technical improvements in players at the Force. But as a head coach, sorry he has never achieved the results or shown an ability to coach a side to play anything but the percentage play seen at the Tahs and now the Force.

 

[RedsHappy]

Did any if you sensible observers predict the Force's narrow miss of the finals in 2014.

If you want to bag coaches for their failures, you must give credit for any success too.

How is 'getting close to the finals' a genuine 'coaching success' in professional footie, if it's not at all sustained by further improvement in the next year?

The Tahs did this in many years, they actually got into the finals, but by 2012 they were on the brink of insolvency (again).

'Success' is what Link attained in 2010-11. The first of those two years was massive progress upon 2009, the second, the true breakthrough to a Title win.

 

[Gnostic]

I'd also say that taking a team like the Lions, a team of no great names on a tour and going home with 3/4 wins playing an attacking game plan takes more coaching ability than running through statistics endlessly and finding ways to minimise risk and error. One is a method not to lose, the other to actually try and win.

Which appeal to the Australian psych that coined the term, "have a go ya mug"?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Because wins in isolation are not a measure of being a good coach.

If every team was equal that would be the case.

A good coach makes good use of the talent available to get better results than others would.

The most wins in that team's history would surely be getting more out of that same group than others have been able to.

 

[I like to watch]

Undoubtedly Foley improved the cattle he had with the Force.
Force fans were ecstatic about not being flogged.
But there is a ceiling to that style of play.And it is fucking boring to watch week in week out.

 

[cyclopath]

Because wins in isolation are not a measure of being a good coach.

If every team was equal that would be the case.

A good coach makes good use of the talent available to get better results than others would.

The most wins in that team's history would surely be getting more out of that same group than others have been able to.

Indeed, but is he getting the most out of it? The Force have not had a problem competing up front with most teams at scrum and breakdown particularly. These are Foley's undoubted strengths. But the use of the ball is not progressing much. They seem to retain ball for multi-phases quite well, but the attacking structure is too one-dimensional with lots of pick and drives in close and then one out runners only about 1-2 wide. Not enough variety. I think Gnostic has a good point - do the first part well, build pressure and take points and wear teams down - this will work often. But it doesn't challenge defences enough if it is not fast enough or varied enough. Better teams will deal with it and be better on their own ball.
I would agree Foley is a very good coach in his area of expertise, but he hasn't really made the jump to a good head coach as yet. I reckon the Force could be better. Maybe some of the problem is not getting the right assistants around him?

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Is it far too early for a reds 2016 thread?

 

[I like to watch]

Nah,he has the assistants that suit his style and personality.
If a backline turns over the ball 6 times and score 3 tries.
Some coaches focus on the 3 tries and are happy,some focus on the 6 turnovers and the loss of possession and territory.
He is in the latter camp,

 

[No4918]

Is it far too early for a reds 2016 thread?

Yes. I think we vote to skip 2016 and go straight to 2017.

 

[TOCC]

Is it far too early for a reds 2016 thread?

I'd hold back until a new coach is appointed, there's little to discuss until that happens


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