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Reds 2015

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TOCC

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Gnostic said:
I still harbour doubts about that point of all the credit going to Link. The ensemble backline play/attack that gained the Reds the 2011 title was in place before Link. I do not downplay what he did with discipline and technical aspects of the forwards and overall application and defence, but seriously ask the question, could the result have been achieved without the work of Mooney and Co to establish those skills we saw gain that title?
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This isn't news to anyone, plenty of people on here have credited with Mooney with developing some of the foundations of the Reds which later went on to win the Championship.

Mooney deserves credit for what he did, but you only need to look at the team which won the 2011 Super Rugby GF, half of the match day 22 weren't even in Phil Mooneys 30man squad for the 2009 season...

Furthermore, of the 2011 Championship Winning back line; Genia, Fainga'a, Tapuai, Lance, Prior, Chambers and Davies they had a total of 11 starting caps between them from the Mooney years....
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
but you only need to look at the team which won the 2011 Super Rugby GF, half of the match day 22 weren't even in Phil Mooneys 30man squad for the 2009 season.
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2009 Squad

Ben Daley

Dayna Edwards

Greg Holmes

Jack Kennedy

Laurie Weeks

Saia Fainga'a

Sean Hardman

Adam Byrnes

James Horwill (c)

Van Humphries

Rob Simmons

Daniel Braid

Scott Higginbotham

Leroy Houston

Poutasi Luafutu

Hugh McMeniman

Ezra Taylor

Will Genia

Ben Lucas

Berrick Barnes

Quade Cooper

Blair Connor

Anthony Fainga'a

Charlie Fetoai

Morgan Turinui

Peter Hynes

Digby Ioane

Brando Va'aulu

Rodney Davies

Mark McLinden



2011 Winning Team

1. Jono Lance

Rodney Davies

Anthony Fainga'a

Ben Tapuai

Digby Ioane

Quade Cooper

Will Genia

2. Radike Samo

3. Beau Robinson

Scott Higginbotham

James Horwill

Rob Simmons

Greg Holmes

Saia Fainga'a

Ben Daley

4. James Hanson

5. Guy Shepherdson

6. Adam Wallace-Harrison

7. Jake Schatz

8. Liam Gill

9. Ian Prior

Will Chambers


Whilst you are technically correct, and 9 of the 22 were newly introduced, you would imagine that 5 of those (Gill, Schatz, Prior, Lance and Hanson) were likely involved in the academy set up in 2009. And only 4 of these players were starting players.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Train Without a Station said:
Whilst you are technically correct, and 9 of the 22 were newly introduced, you would imagine that 5 of those (Gill, Schatz, Prior, Lance and Hanson) were likely involved in the academy set up in 2009. And only 4 of these players were starting players.
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Technically correct yes, but if you want to argue the involvement of those players then the stat that i also posted of the backs; Genia, Fainga'a, Tapuai, Lance, Prior, Chambers and Davies only receiving 11 caps from the Mooney years is also a reflection of the work that McKenzie had to do.

Yes Mooney laid some of the foundations by giving those players debuts, but in the same breath Eddie Jones also gave Will Genia and Quade Cooper their debuts.
 
Parse

Parse

Bill Watson (15)
I get the feeling there will be a few more "That's rather unfortunate"'s coming after next weeks game when Super Rugby takes it's break for the tests.
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
I wouldn't get too carried away. Harris is a loss, and I'm sure the Reds would have wanted to re-sign him.

But he is also the 3rd player we have whose best position is 12. I'd say it's likely the offer tabled from the reds was reflective of that and the value was less related to his perceived worth and more related to him being the one off contract.

Been a great player for the reds and will be a big loss. Been our only back really hitting the line hard this season all season. All the best to him.
 
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TOCC

Guest
I think it's a necessary evil, the Reds need some turnover in their backs.. They have a surplus of inside backs and whilst he is a good player he isn't exactly pivotal to the backline... Retaining Tapuai was more important to the Reds in the long term.
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
TOCC said:
I think it's a necessary evil, the Reds need some turnover in their backs.. They have a surplus of inside backs and whilst he is a good player he isn't exactly pivotal to the backline. Retaining Tapuai was more important to the Reds in the long term.
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Yeah TOCC maybe but

I have been fairly disappointed with Taps and Ant for most of this year and even last. They have not performed to their abilities that saw them both in the Green and Gold
 
Floggn'

Floggn'

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Scrubber2050 said:
Yeah TOCC maybe but

I have been fairly disappointed with Taps and Ant for most of this year and even last. They have not performed to their abilities that saw them both in the Green and Gold
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Yep agree Scrubber. Both those two don't look as fit as they should be. Taps is a shadow of his former self. Harris should have been playing there (12) as he actually runs a good line and gets over the Ad line. I wouldn't be suprised if he has left because he doesn't like 15 and wants to play 12 and also be the first choice goal kicker in the team. Those things would help his cause to make the World Cup Squad which no doubt is all players goals for next season.
 
RedsHappy

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Scrubber2050 said:
Yeah TOCC maybe but

I have been fairly disappointed with Taps and Ant for most of this year and even last. They have not performed to their abilities that saw them both in the Green and Gold
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...............and Ant F looks the world to me like a player that peaked in 2011, maybe 2012, and that will never come back. No way does he today look like a player you'd rate as a title-winning 12 or 13. Remembering too that Ant's defence was always his greatest asset and that too has clearly diminished this year. Any day of the week, I'd keep Harris over Ant if it was a straight choice between them.

Taps' skills are sort of reviving, but, again, on this and last year's performance, you would not put him into anything like 'near or at the best 12s or 13s in the comp'.

The idea of the Reds is fundamentally to win S15/18 Titles, or get very close and into the SFs and F. Sentiment over past glories and past loyalties will need rapid displacement if, in the years ahead, 2011 comes not to be seen as a 'beautiful one-off moment that will take a decade or more to repeat'.
 
RedsHappy

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Floggn' said:
Hope Mike Harris' leaving is not the start of a mass exodus but my hopes aren't high..
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I hope so too. But in recent weeks I have heard from enough very credible sources that there is significant disaffection within the Reds squad concerning coaching, game plans, selections and general team morale.
 
Scotty

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Funnily enough I reckon Taps has been our best back this season. Not huge competition but he has made metres and beaten opposition players in each game.
 
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