Reds 2014

[Ignoto]

Can you be contracted to the ARU without an Australian Super Rugby contract? Don't think so.

He has a contract for the 2013 season, both a Reds and a ARU contract and I'd imagine contracts run for the entire calendar year to keep things simple. So unless I'm wrong in the length of the contract, he's signed on for the entirety of this year. It's 2014 in which he doesn't have a contract with the ARU.

 

[Braveheart81]

The article mentions that a hiccup is Digby's contract with the Reds, but isn't he contracted to the ARU till the end of the year? If so, would the ARU really allow Digby to leave before the Quad-Nations?

The ARU would potentially let him go if they thought they had enough available wingers (which at this stage they do). Letting him go early means they can stop paying his guaranteed Wallaby top up which is one of the highest.

 

[Ignoto]

The ARU would potentially let him go if they thought they had enough available wingers (which at this stage they do). Letting him go early means they can stop paying his guaranteed Wallaby top up which is one of the highest.

I'd agree with that for the EOYT when Speight becomes eligible to be picked.

Without knowing when payments are made, wouldn't the current 30-odd Wallabies have received their payments? If it's a monthly thing, then you'd have to hope the manager doesn't get picky and tries to chase a severance payment from the ARU.

Personally, if I was the ARU, I'd be enforcing the contract. You don't want players thinking they can dictate terms and even reading between the lines of Carmichael, Digby seems to be getting too big of himself. Time to play hard ball and show the managers that going to the public for the sympathy card isn't a viable option.

 

[RedsHappy]

Ioane The Great - based upon his 2013 performance level - is gradually evolving into a myth.

Yes, his line breaks and tackle busts are excellent, and valuable. But rugby stats so often are wrongly focussed upon 'events' in isolation (such as possession %, run metres, etc), rather than the more important yet more complex measure 'effective points yielded via multiple linked events' or more simply 'effective outcomes'.

Look at Digby's outcomes more closely. He's scoring few tries, and often his breaks and busts lead him to disappointing endings where he either knocks on, loses the ball in some way, passes poorly or too late, or loses his support players. IMO, his 'glamour stats' are thus misleading, as his 'effective yield in terms of linked event outcomes' for his team are nowhere near as compelling even though they are way less remarked upon and analysed properly (partly as our Aus Fox commentators are so intellectually lazy and easily impressed by 'dazzling breaks' and 'big hits' and such like)..

This is not to say he's not a valuable, skilful player. It's just that he's nowhere near as 'irreplaceable' and a 'terrible loss' for the Reds or Wallabies as many argue. I would almost guarantee that Speight (for example) would yield more effective outcomes per game for either of these teams than the 2013 vintage Ioane.

 

[Jets]

IF he's gone it should be after the domestic test season at the earliest. From the people I spoken to Digby's manager makes Khoder Nasser seem like a good bloke.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd agree with that for the EOYT when Speight becomes eligible to be picked.

Without knowing when payments are made, wouldn't the current 30-odd Wallabies have received their payments? If it's a monthly thing, then you'd have to hope the manager doesn't get picky and tries to chase a severance payment from the ARU.

Personally, if I was the ARU, I'd be enforcing the contract. You don't want players thinking they can dictate terms and even reading between the lines of Carmichael, Digby seems to be getting too big of himself. Time to play hard ball and show the managers that going to the public for the sympathy card isn't a viable option.

I'd be guessing they are paid monthly like most people on a payroll.

The ARU has generally released people from their contracts early in the past. It's a bit of a Catch-22 for the ARU.

The player wants to leave to take up a new contract so you're stuck in the position of whether or not you want to select someone for the Wallabies who would prefer to have already left and then if you aren't going to select them for that reason, do you force them to stay in the country and keep paying them just to spite them and ensure they aren't dictating terms?

In my opinion, I'd let them leave early. I wouldn't select someone for the Wallabies who has requested an early release (quite different from someone leaving at the end of their contract in my opinion) and then I wouldn't want to keep paying someone that I was getting no value out of.

 

[Scotty]

Not sure how they are paid now, but the ARU payments used to be something like twice a year only.

 

[Scoey]

So if he's signed with Stade Francais for 2 years does that mean he's ruled himself out of the 2015 RWC? Or does it simply mean that his contract will expire at the end of the 2015 Top14 comp (now-ish in '15) and then he will potentially be back in Aus for the RWC15 at the end of '15? This stuff always confuses me!

 

[Braveheart81]

So if he's signed with Stade Francais for 2 years does that mean he's ruled himself out of the 2015 RWC? Or does it simply mean that his contract will expire at the end of the 2015 Top14 comp (now-ish in '15) and then he will potentially be back in Aus for the RWC15 at the end of '15? This stuff always confuses me!

Yes. He'd be off contract at the end of May or early June 2015.

You'd imagine that it would be difficult for him to gain selection in the 2015 RWC based on that return date, particularly as our wing stocks are currently on the rise.

 

[Bowside]

But he could still potentially turn out for Australia at the 2015 WC, provided he could do a Vickerman.

 

[Braveheart81]

But he could still potentially turn out for Australia at the 2015 WC, provided he could do a Vickerman.

Definitely. It will come down to need though.

Unless there are a barrage of injuries in 2015, it would appear at this stage that we're going to have a strong group of wings to choose from.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Ioane The Great - based upon his 2013 performance level - is gradually evolving into a myth.

Yes, his line breaks and tackle busts are excellent, and valuable. But rugby stats so often are wrongly focussed upon 'events' in isolation (such as possession %, run metres, etc), rather than the more important yet more complex measure 'effective points yielded via multiple linked events' or more simply 'effective outcomes'.

Look at Digby's outcomes more closely. He's scoring few tries, and often his breaks and busts lead him to disappointing endings where he either knocks on, loses the ball in some way, passes poorly or too late, or loses his support players. IMO, his 'glamour stats' are thus misleading, as his 'effective yield in terms of linked event outcomes' for his team are nowhere near as compelling even though they are way less remarked upon and analysed properly (partly as our Aus Fox commentators are so intellectually lazy and easily impressed by 'dazzling breaks' and 'big hits' and such like)..

This is not to say he's not a valuable, skilful player. It's just that he's nowhere near as 'irreplaceable' and a 'terrible loss' for the Reds or Wallabies as many argue. I would almost guarantee that Speight (for example) would yield more effective outcomes per game for either of these teams than the 2013 vintage Ioane.

completely agree.
in shipperly, speight, tomane, mafi, cummins, vuna, JOC (James O'Connor), and folau there are plenty of high quality wing options.
i would let him go if he's kicking up a fuss. save tonnes of money and top up another player probably for less money - leaving additional funds for izzzzzzy

 

[TOCC]

The issue is with his ARU contract, that is the one he has the release clause in

 

[meatsack]

Ioane The Great - based upon his 2013 performance level - is gradually evolving into a myth.

Yes, his line breaks and tackle busts are excellent, and valuable.....

Look at Digby's outcomes more closely. He's scoring few tries, and often his breaks and busts lead him to disappointing endings where he either knocks on, loses the ball in some way, passes poorly or too late, or loses his support players. IMO, his 'glamour stats' are thus misleading, as his 'effective yield in terms of linked event outcomes' for his team are nowhere near as compelling even though they are way less remarked upon and analysed properly.....

I think that's a little unfair, yeah he's not getting the tries or the metres, but could that be because defences have adapted to try and shut him down? I think so, and in doing so it makes the job easier for the blokes around him. When defences see him lining up for an inside ball off Genia in a set play it puts them in a mind to hit Ioane early, but that in turn lets Genia pull the ball in and run himself. I think we really need to look at his effect on the offence as a whole when he's on the field. Granted, handling errors are all his own, but lack of metres can be a little more complex.

 

[Sully]

Actually he is getting plenty of metres.

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[Brumby Jack]

Ioane signed to Stade Francais for 2 years for 1.2 Million croissants a year.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...h-stade-francais/story-e6frg7o6-1226634211746

 

[TOCC]

Dam that's a good contract for a winger

 

[Jets]

I'd take it.

 

[Tangawizi]

So the Reds should have a bit of room to move in the salary cap now. Wonder where they'll spend it.

 

[meatsack]

Actually he is getting plenty of metres.

Yeah, I edited the quoted post too much, maybe I should have included:

But rugby stats so often are wrongly focussed upon 'events' in isolation (such as possession %, run metres, etc), rather than the more important yet more complex measure 'effective points yielded via multiple linked events' or more simply 'effective outcomes'.

... IMO, his 'glamour stats' are thus misleading, as his 'effective yield in terms of linked event outcomes' for his team are nowhere near as compelling even though they are way less remarked upon and analysed properly (partly as our Aus Fox commentators are so intellectually lazy and easily impressed by 'dazzling breaks' and 'big hits' and such like).

I don't mean to attack RedsHappy at all, its just that there seems to be 3 levels of stats. The points stats. The direct assist stats. And the near impossible to quantify 'psychological stats'. When a guy can consistently make so many metres he's going to have influence in the red zone. Whether he touches the ball or not, defences will be drawn to him when he has just the potential to touch the ball. I'm not saying he's irreplaceable, just saying that even without the hard stats he's still had a huge influence for the Reds this year.