Reds 2014

[liquor box]

Fuck BR, put those one eyed Brumbies glasses away. To'omua yes but Lilo absolutely no way in hell. As a test player he had something like 8 starts and did nothing really more than be there and not fuck up.

I will gladly admit that To'omua did enough in the gold 12 to say he has been a better wallaby performer there than Taps was in 2012 and whilst I thought Taps was the closest we had to Horan (in regards to playing style, not quality), To'omua's hard running, strong defence and distribution have been excellent at 12 and think even if he has an average 2014 he should still be first choice.

But to suggest the same of Lealiafano is just ACT hubris.

I would love to see Taps play to the potential that everyone talks about, at the moment I am only convinced he is a good player. I have never been overly impressed with him and am waiting for something awesome to occur. I guess there are some players that people rave about and I just don't see the player living up to this hype.
I realise on the Reds thread I will get crucified and hopefully at seasons end someone will quote my post and say I told you so.

I think he seemed fitter and better when he first played for the reds.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Did you not see him play for the Reds and the Wallabies in 2012?

If you are just saying he was nothing special in 2013, well I would certainly agree with you there.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I'm not saying that Taps is better or worse than Harris, I just think Harris has screwed up a lot less than Taps recently and I'd give him game time as a result. Switch them around with 30 or so to go to give him a chance to show he is up there again.

 

[gel]

I think the forwards are pretty much set in stone, but I would like to see the backs as:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Feauai-Sautia/Shipperley
12. Tapuai
13. Fainga'a
14. Davies/Shipperley
15. Harris

I don't know if they are all fit though - I think Davies had a pretty serious knee or leg injury if I recall correctly.

Lucas, Frisby and Shipperley should provide pretty decent bench service.

 

[No4918]

I think Turner is almost set in stone at 15 and would probably have Harris over Lucas on the bench as 10, 12 & 15 cover. Lucas vs Frisby for the 9 reserve is a close thing and Lucas's versatility may get him the nod to begin with.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Fuck BR, put those one eyed Brumbies glasses away. To'omua yes but Lilo absolutely no way in hell. As a test player he had something like 8 starts and did nothing really more than be there and not fuck up.

I will gladly admit that To'omua did enough in the gold 12 to say he has been a better wallaby performer there than Taps was in 2012 and whilst I thought Taps was the closest we had to Horan (in regards to playing style, not quality), To'omua's hard running, strong defence and distribution have been excellent at 12 and think even if he has an average 2014 he should still be first choice.

But to suggest the same of Lealiafano is just ACT hubris.

I must see things the same way as Link, but apparently we're both wrong. But positively, I hope Taps does come back as good as he was. Does he have similar fitness and weight problems as KB (Kurtley Beale)?

 

[fatprop]

So all you Reds supporters have absolute confidence in Graham's ability as a head coach?

In reality he is unproven as yet

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[Train Without a Station]

I must see things the same way as Link, but apparently we're both wrong. But positively, I hope Taps does come back as good as he was. Does he have similar fitness and weight problems as KB (Kurtley Beale)?

Taps had a bad year in 2013. Shouldn't have been picked. Where does that mean Wallaby selectors and coach think Lilo did more with his chance as a Wallaby? They picked the form Super Rugby player, stuck with him but he really failed to fire.

You're drawing a long bow to say that Lilo has done better than almost anybody regular in the last 5 years as a Wallaby 12 (E.g. Taps, Barnes, Gits) in fact.

 

[TOCC]

So all you Reds supporters have absolute confidence in Graham's ability as a head coach?

In reality he is unproven as yet

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No, he is an unknown quality...

But he has served an apprenticeship most coaches would dream of, so 2014 is his opportunity to prove his worth.

 

[TOCC]

Taps had a bad year in 2013. Shouldn't have been picked. Where does that mean Wallaby selectors and coach think Lilo did more with his chance as a Wallaby? They picked the form Super Rugby player, stuck with him but he really failed to fire.

You're drawing a long bow to say that Lilo has done better than almost anybody regular in the last 5 years as a Wallaby 12 (E.g. Taps, Barnes, Gits) in fact.

I know everyone says players should be picked on form, but a consecutive quality performances in the wallaby jersey definitely give a player extra cred at the selection table.

In saying that I think Lilo is back to square one for 2014 wallaby selections, he did nothing outrageously wrong but he did nothing to state he is an automatic inclusion either. Conversely To'omua has runs on the board for 2014, he showed he has the ability to step up and play test rugby.

The way is see it there are two kinds of players: those who need to prove they deserve a jersey again and those who have a jerseys and it's their position to lose.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I know everyone says players should be picked on form, but a consecutive quality performances in the wallaby jersey definitely give a player extra cred at the selection table.

In saying that I think Lilo is back to square one for 2014 wallaby selections, he did nothing outrageously wrong but he did nothing to state he is an automatic inclusion either. Conversely To'omua has runs on the board for 2014, he showed he has the ability to step up and play test rugby.

The way is see it there are two kinds of players: those who need to prove they deserve a jersey again and those who have a jerseys and it's their position to lose.

I agree. I'd go as far as to say that because Taps has shown greater ability at test level, he's a better chance than Lilo in 2014. If they are both performing equally as well you've got one who did quite well and another who did nothing wrong, but nothing of note either.

 

[Ruggo]

So all you Reds supporters have absolute confidence in Graham's ability as a head coach?

In reality he is unproven as yet

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That is the exact reason I refuse to pre judge him in any negative sense.

I have faith that he will be able to put his footprint on the job. He has the cattle and the backing of his employer so lets wait and see.

 

[Ruggo]

I still prefer Ant at 12 but should he play 13, I would not rule out Lucas for 12. He has all the attributes, seems to work harder than Taps and has a more diverse game than Harris.

What this debate highlights is that we have options which is great.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

How is RG unproven have you all chosen not to remember his time at the Force.......?


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[fatprop]

How is RG unproven have you all chosen not to remember his time at the Force...?


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Well he wasn't exactly a roaring success at the farce

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[GaffaCHinO]

Well he wasn't exactly a roaring success at the farce

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Exactly my point he was half the reason we were a Farce


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[I like to watch]

He has had some apprenticeship.
Assistant to Michael Foley,then Knuckles @ Bath,then Eddie Jones @ Saracens,RD @ Wobblies,then John Mitchell with the Force(thank you Wikipedia!)
Pretty much all of these coaches teams are arm wrestlers more than they are expansive.
I wouldn't be backing the Reds to set any try scoring records next year.

 

[No4918]

Exactly my point he was half the reason we were a Farce


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If you have been so bad under 3 different coaches I have to wonder how long rhey should take the blame.

 

[TOCC]

How is RG unproven have you all chosen not to remember his time at the Force...?


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Well you may be right, under Graham they finished above the Brumbies and Rebels..

A coach is hardly proven after 1 season, especially young coaches like Graham and Foley.. Foley isn't exactly a proven coach, in fact he has a fairly disastrous record, but like players coaches take time to develop...

Hence he is an unproven quality, 2 years is a good testing ground for coaches, gives them enough time to implement change in styles and recruit they players they want.

 

[TOCC]

He has had some apprenticeship.
Assistant to Michael Foley,then Knuckles @ Bath,then Eddie Jones @ Saracens,RD @ Wobblies,then John Mitchell with the Force(thank you Wikipedia!)
Pretty much all of these coaches teams are arm wrestlers more than they are expansive.
I wouldn't be backing the Reds to set any try scoring records next year.

Eddie Jones and Robbie Deans coach arm wrestles? Even John Mitchell, he has displayed many different coaching styles over the years, when he coached the AB's they were far from arm wrestlers.

Ironically when Graham was the skills coach at the Wallabies they had the highest try-scoring rate for the whole of RD's tenor. Once he left the wallabies try scoring dropped off massively.