Reds 2014

[Jets]

I think the Reds do a really good job with their vids but I'd love the brand to have a fresh look in 2014 to coincide with the changing of the coach. I think as a brand they could be a bit fresher and younger. In the past it has been very serious and I felt that was a good fit with Links personality but it doesn't reflect RG in my view.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Yep, I can totally understand that sentiment. I think it is unlikely that he would make the Reds side whilst Gill is around anyway.

I am not a fan of picking forwards based on height, particularly openside flankers who tend to be small in size and big in heart anyway. The bloke your username is named after would probably agree. If you have seen Gunn play you'd know his strength is his defence and presence in the ruck, being small helps him avoid opposing clean outs but he is also very good at pilfering.'That' tackle on Rod Davies at Bottomley Park was a highlight of the season.

Browning is not a 7, and never will be, so can't see how he figures into the equation. I get your point though but I am always of the belief that talent exceeds size and if they are good enough to be there, then let it be.

I wouldn't mind seeing him go down the the Brumbies for a year or two as it will do wonders for his development but at some point I'd love to see him pull on the Red jersey at Suncorp. That being said, he is still only 18 years old and has been living in Brisbane since he was a kid playing for the same club side (easts) since he was a junior. Packing everything up to move down to miserable, cold Canberra would be a big call at this stage in his career when he is still at least 2 years of Super level and the quality of the QLD domestic competition far exceeds that down south.

Who knows what offers might be around next year after another season of premier grade, the kid's potential is endless.

I understand height is not everything. But your looking at it from just a physical presence perspective rather than a tactical one. However it must be noted that size does matter these days as I am sure the wallabies can attest to from Saturday night.

You need to look at the balance of the backrow, and how Gunn if signed would fit in. Let's say that Schatz and Quirk are both injured for the same period of time (god forbid) so who steps up?

Robinson and Browning both are not sensations in the line out, but are serviceable. The next flanker in line is who then? Gunn? I would be a little nervous carrying a backrow rotation of those four into South Africa. You nearly be relying on them either placing Horwill or Mcdulling to 6 which would not be ideal.

My namesake is not that tall either as you correctly pointed out however you usually find that the rest of the french or toulouse backrow will balance this out.
Kid has game but he is not what we need in our squad of 35 but the college may be a good fit for him.

 

[light]

I think we are more or less saying the same thing and I agree with most of your comments.

So, to draw it all back to the point of my original post about him.

I'd like to see him stay in Queensland and whatever it takes to achieve that, I believe the QRU should do.

He is at least another two years off super level so I can't see any benefit of offering him a pro contract or even considering him in the Reds line up. That being said, he would be a very worthwhile EPS player and will benefit greatly from playing in an academy set up and training with the playing group.

He is only 18 and who knows, he still has time to grow!

 

[SouthernX]

I think Height is very important when signing prospect forwards.

I love a David & Goliath story where the little battler outplays the bigger man!

But when your gonna throw 5 even 6 figures at these young kids to hopefully help you win a championship, you'd want that kid to be the next David Pocock because as a avid fan of Brisbane Club Rugby I can tell you how many times I've heard "This kid needs a super/EPS contract" & only see them struggle to make the adjustment when they finally arrive because it's not the boy playing amongst boys anymore but rathter the boy playing amongst men.

 

[tigerland12]

I genuinely think Gunny would be able to make that step up. What you're saying SoX is 100% right, but there is something about how he plays that makes me think he would find it a lot easier.

He plays 5-6yrs above his age in terms of physicality and toughness.

 

[Bowside]

Yeah sign this bloke up, he can replace Robbo in a season or so. And if he's good enough he could push gilly as well.

 

[kiap]

He appears to be the same height as Richie McCaw

..... but obviously weighs a lot less.

 

[Jets]

So is he studying psychology? If so he'd be really hand for Aust rugby in a few years.

I think an academy spot would be good for him. Allow him to develop in a professional program while still playing in the comfort of his club environment. Also he'd be well in the mix for Aust U20's.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

187cm? seems a tad exaggerated. I would have thought he would barely pushing 185cm. Same with Browning stats listing him as 190cm which is something I doubt.

But I comparing them to myself so maybe I am a lot taller than my licence says.

tigerland12 & SouthernX I am under the belief that a lot of young players who are thrusted into Premier Grade at a young age end up meeting the challenge head on and strive to show that they are no shrinking violet. This is because it is premier grade football and you need to go by the mantra 'kill or be killed'. Most of the time young players need to make the consciences decision to step up in such a manner during their first year, untill they adapt and feel they no longer need to prove that they are not 'young and weak'.

I find this is where second year syndrome comes in for a lot of players, as those with out the strong mental resolve needed to be professional player end up feeling like nothing needs to be proven and they no longer need to go that extra mile and put their body on the line to prove their worth.

Which leads me to my point. That with players like Gunn, Greene and Placid they should be given an extra year in clubland without the pressure of Pro footy. The reds should sign them to the academy as a carrot of what is to come, but I believe another year to test their resolve at premier level would do them well.

However if another franchise wants to give them a pro contract then so be it.

 

[tigerland12]

Agree with all that your saying TD.

I'd look to progress those three the same way they have done for Browning. With Curtis I think it was always implied he'd be getting a full contract, but after a year in the Reds College playing in the Premier Comp and U20's. I think that is the best way for Greene, Gunn & Placid. It allows them to have one more year developing, whilst still learning the systems of the Reds. But most importantly, it means that they are not lost to Queensland footy.

Any news on Greene by the way? I've seen photos of Gunny & Jonah at Reds training, surley Greene was among that invited lot of Premier players?

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I am of the understanding that Greene and a few others from west were training with the reds. I am not sure if that is still the case as i believe other franchises were looking at them.

 

[tranquility]

Why would we not sign Gunn as a development 7?

Because we have Quirk, Shatz and Browning.. Sorry, what?

Other than Robbo we dont have a backup 7 in the squad, something we desperately need. He is actually a pretty good size too.

Given that there is no other standout 7s in the comp demanding selection - and given the amount of development he still has once he enters a professional setup - it's really a no brainer.

Although the QLD reds are far more logical than I am, so I am sure they have it all under control. We have actually been very good at keeping the best of the young crop in QLD.

Also why would it be better for his development to leave family and friends and go to Canberra? He has less of a shot down there and I back our rugby program to look after our own.

 

[hammertimethere]

If I was gunny I would take a gig in canberra. They have Pocock and smiler to compete with at 7 now that colby has gone. He would have the opportunity to learn from one of the game's best 7's and most disciplined men, as well as be under the tutelage of the white wizard of forward play in Laurie Fisher. If he could cop living away from home, the environment down there is one very conducive to being a better player.

 

[tranquility]

We may as well give up our franchise license if that is our attitude.

 

[Braveheart81]

When it comes to 18 year olds and other really young, talented players, there is always going to be multiple issues at play when it comes to signing them.

For the Reds, it might not make sense to give him an EPS spot next year because they have other needs and different levels of depth in each position. Another franchise might be desperate for another 7 and offer him a spot. If that happens I don't think the Reds have done anything wrong. Each decision isn't made in isolation and signing one player means you don't sign another.

If Gunn has no EPS contract in 2014 then he would probably be playing for the Super Rugby B team and obviously Premier Grade. You'd think that he wouldn't be missing out on too much in terms of development if that is the result.

A lot of it might come down to how desperate Gunn is to have an EPS contract next year versus what offers he receives and from who and how much he balances a dream of playing for the Reds versus playing Super Rugby in general.

 

[tranquility]

When it comes to 18 year olds and other really young, talented players, there is always going to be multiple issues at play when it comes to signing them.

For the Reds, it might not make sense to give him an EPS spot next year because they have other needs and different levels of depth in each position. Another franchise might be desperate for another 7 and offer him a spot. If that happens I don't think the Reds have done anything wrong. Each decision isn't made in isolation and signing one player means you don't sign another.

If Gunn has no EPS contract in 2014 then he would probably be playing for the Super Rugby B team and obviously Premier Grade. You'd think that he wouldn't be missing out on too much in terms of development if that is the result.

A lot of it might come down to how desperate Gunn is to have an EPS contract next year versus what offers he receives and from who and how much he balances a dream of playing for the Reds versus playing Super Rugby in general.

Exactly, but he doesn't need a contract next year for him to be in the long term even medium term plans. My point was that there is clearly a spot for him in the squad moving forward - as he fills a void that we clearly have or are about to have. Whether it is 2014 or 2015 - his future should be tied up in Red.

 

[Braveheart81]

Exactly, but he doesn't need a contract next year for him to be in the long term even medium term plans. My point was that there is clearly a spot for him in the squad moving forward - as he fills a void that we clearly have or are about to have. Whether it is 2014 or 2015 - his future should be tied up in Red.

Couldn't agree more. Assuming this is the case and the Reds don't have an EPS spot for him in 2014 but probably will in 2015, they should be telling him this is their thinking.

If Gunn then decided that he wasn't willing to wait a year then he could explore other options. You'd hope that most 18 year olds would think that waiting a year is their best option. It's not like moving to a different city to take up an EPS contract is opeing up a river of gold.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Why would we not sign Gunn as a development 7?

Because we have Quirk, Shatz and Browning.. Sorry, what?

Other than Robbo we dont have a backup 7 in the squad, something we desperately need. He is actually a pretty good size too.

Given that there is no other standout 7s in the comp demanding selection - and given the amount of development he still has once he enters a professional setup - it's really a no brainer.

Although the QLD reds are far more logical than I am, so I am sure they have it all under control. We have actually been very good at keeping the best of the young crop in QLD.

Also why would it be better for his development to leave family and friends and go to Canberra? He has less of a shot down there and I back our rugby program to look after our own.

He can still be in the academy and be 3rd string open side......that's the point of the academy. But I dont think he is what we need in the squad of 35.

You could argue the logistics of how you spread your 35 players all day, but in my eyes i wouldn't be carrying three specialist opensides.

Why would he develop more in Canberra? As he would have a good shot at being their second string openside. Due to that fact they aren't carrying any other opensides Ita Vaea who i have heard may or may not be back. So you would have to take things like that into account.

I am not saying he isn't up to Reds standards, but in my eyes he isn't the type of player the reds need.

P.S I can think of a few opensides in the premier comp who would disagree with no other standout 7's statement (Setu and Mitchell?).


EDIT:

Exactly, but he doesn't need a contract next year for him to be in the long term even medium term plans.

I actually think we are all on the same page

 

[tigerland12]

I defiantly wouldn't categorise Setu and Mitchell at the same level as Gunn. Both very good players, but Gunny was awesome every game he played and was miles ahead of any other 7 in the comp.

 

[Schalk Burger]

hy would we not sign Gunn as a development 7?

Because we have Quirk, Shatz and Browning.. Sorry, what?

Other than Robbo we dont have a backup 7 in the squad, something we desperately need. He is actually a pretty good size too.

Given that there is no other standout 7s in the comp demanding selection - and given the amount of development he still has once he enters a professional setup - it's really a no brainer.

Although the QLD reds are far more logical than I am, so I am sure they have it all under control. We have actually been very good at keeping the best of the young crop in QLD.

Also why would it be better for his development to leave family and friends and go to Canberra? He has less of a shot down there and I back our rugby program to look after our own.