Reds 2014

[lewisr]

Why have we still not signed any big names? I don't get it, especially when Digby is leaving and opening up a hole in the salary cap. It all seems to be development players and noone that is going to fill a starting spot. Really quite annoying when the tahs have players like Potgieter, beale and possibly folau.

 

[Cat_A]

The Reds seem to have paid above the odds to keep some of their key players in the past couple of years if they can't afford to buy any new players.

It does seem surprising that they haven't signed any big names with Ioane leaving. Perhaps the Reds pay the lower end players in their squad more than the other franchises?

I know that the Reds do not pay their lower end players more than other franchises. Most of the lower end players fall under the RUPA EBA and standard pay scales, at least for their first year under contract. The second year contains some variability, as I understand it.

Based on that, I surmise the first quoted point is the case.

 

[Beer Baron]

Why have we still not signed any big names? I don't get it, especially when Digby is leaving and opening up a hole in the salary cap. It all seems to be development players and noone that is going to fill a starting spot. Really quite annoying when the tahs have players like Potgieter, beale and possibly folau.

Hold up a sec.... Don't forget the wallaby captain and vice captain, and cooper. In 2011 quade was mentioned in the same breath as izzy now.

 

[TOCC]

I know that the Reds do not pay their lower end players more than other franchises. Most of the lower end players fall under the RUPA EBA and standard pay scales, at least for their first year under contract. The second year contains some variability, as I understand it.

Based on that, I surmise the first quoted point is the case.

The only RUPA "pay scales" is the minimum wage that must be paid to a contracted player...

The contracts on offer could be less if the other teams were all paying marginally above the minimum wage which isn't a large figure by any means.

 

[Lee Grant]

…… a marquee foreign player doesn't form part of the salary cap.

I didn't know that.

 

[I like to watch]

Hold up a sec.. Don't forget the wallaby captain and vice captain, and cooper. In 2011 quade was mentioned in the same breath as izzy now.

Yep but you have to take into account the hysteria around re signing QC (Quade Cooper).He is worth whatever he is paid in straight commercial terms.
Whether that is value in terms of his onfield contribution(and his share of the salary cap) well that's a different issue, which could see them compromised when negotiating with other prospective players.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Isnt it that a marquees salary is capped at 150k with in the cap and the club can pay what they want above that?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

 

[Athilnaur]

Hey mate,

Just wondering where you found these stats or where you compiled them? Some good stuff there I wouldn't mind tapping into for some of my own work!

Cheers

Thanks J. Rugbystats.com.au, ruckingoodstats.com, are good, also sites like espn's statsguru, fox etc. The hard part is compiling subsets you need, each site brings pros and cons. Be wary if using for any kind of work purpose or chunk type reporting as copyright will usually apply. Another option is to code yourself. I found that invaluable for picking up detail you normally miss, but it is very time intensive.

 

[FairWeatherAussie]

Hey mate,

Just wondering where you found these stats or where you compiled them? Some good stuff there I wouldn't mind tapping into for some of my own work!

Cheers

How the fuck did Drew Mitchell get in there, he was out from injury for pretty much the entire season. Shirley this must have been a mistake?

 

[FairWeatherAussie]

Some of the posts here suggesting JOC (James O'Connor) is over rated make my head spin. There is some serious hair cut hate going on.

So lets try a little Super Rugby 2013 trivia game.

How many players in the whole comp made 5 or more linebreaks this year?

65 (12%)

How many of those ran 650+ metres?

44

How many of those made 10 or more offloads?

21

How many of these made 3 or more try assists?

7(1%)

Who's left from the whole comp?

Bernard Foley, Tim Nanai-Williams, Drew Mitchell, Rene Ranger, Quade Cooper, Israel Folau, James O'Connor. And of those only one makes significantly more ground ball in hand, Folau.

People can argue O'Connor isn't a ten, but there is something seriously wrong if we can't find a way to get the best out of this guy in Super Rugby, be it at 12, 11, 14 or 15. Or frankly, 10.

As for Wallabies, madness not to play him, madness not to resolve whatever the issue is.

Just re-replaying to the correct post.

How the fuck did Drew Mitchell get in there, he was out from injury for pretty much the entire season. Shirley this must have been a mistake?

 

[FairWeatherAussie]

And, I'd like to add, if the Reds could get JOC (James O'Connor) and play/train him as a 12 outside of Cooper I think it could be the most devastating attacking partnership in soup rugby.

 

[Athilnaur]

FWA, Drew played 764 minutes total, about the same as Nanai-Williams and not much less than O'Connor (896). That those three hit those figures with only 800mins or so is telling - all the others played 1100 plus. Cooper for example played 1280, ie every minute of every game which is also a nice detail, I think it supports the notion a few of us have tabled that he has played a percentage game this year.

That Mitchell missed Wallabies camps is probably more about his injury issues than his form I'd suggest.

 

[TOCC]

Isnt it that a marquees salary is capped at 150k with in the cap and the club can pay what they want above that?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

Yes that was my understanding

 

[Braveheart81]

GaffaCHinO - Thanks for the correction regarding marquee players!

Not sure how you are so sure what the Reds have paid their players tbh, but I bow to your professed knowledge of the situation.

I was mostly speculating. What is known is that each team gets given the same amount of money by the ARU to pay players under the salary cap.

If the Reds can't afford more players they must be paying some of their existing players more than they should.

If there aren't lots of dollars floating around with Digby leaving is it because they've used that money to retain existing players?

 

[Jets]

Phil Mooney?

He took them to court for unpaid earnings. Not sure they'd be keen to see him back.

 

[TOCC]

It depends on what the overall plan is, it may be that the Reds coaching/recruiting staff are confident in their own development pathways and don't want to sign a foreign marquee player..

Ewen McKenzie placed a greater focus on retention rather then recruitment, it may be that Graham is maintaining this mentality.

You sign a foreign marquee player and you risk losing a player in that respective position, given marquee players are only for a max of 2 years, is it worth losing the next up and comer..

 

[gel]

GaffaCHinOI was mostly speculating. What is known is that each team gets given the same amount of money by the ARU to pay players under the salary cap.

Speculating is fine.

Without the facts I am not going to make a guess as to what happens - and, to be honest, given what reportedly went on last year - I wouldn't be too sure of any statements of who gets what. To do so is wrong.

 

[Train Without a Station]

GaffaCHinOIf the Reds can't afford more players they must be paying some of their existing players more than they should.

The funny thing is, as players develop and progress from Academy prospects to permanent starters, their market value and value to the team increases. I'd argue that considering the Reds used their cap to finish above the Waratahs, Force and Rebels who used the same amount of money, perhaps they are the ones paying their players more than they should be.

 

[light]

You sign a foreign marquee player and you risk losing a player in that respective position, given marquee players are only for a max of 2 years, is it worth losing the next up and comer..

Yes, 100%. Especially with the Reds current situation at 15. Our next best crop are at least 2 years off being ready (Green, Placid, McIntyre). Unless Toua can really step up next year we could be in trouble.

I can't see any harm in having an experienced foreign player for our next future star to look up to. If that bloke happens to be from a developing rugby nation then even better.

NOTE: UNDERLINE. We don't need anyone who could be a liability for the franchise. Cooper is enough.

 

[TOCC]

Yes, 100%. Especially with the Reds current situation at 15. Our next best crop are at least 2 years off being ready (Green, Placid, McIntyre). Unless Toua can really step up next year we could be in trouble.

I can't see any harm in having an experienced foreign player for our next future star to look up to. If that bloke happens to be from a developing rugby nation then even better.

NOTE: UNDERLINE. We don't need anyone who could be a liability for the franchise. Cooper is enough.

I disagree, so you are advocating the signing of a experienced foreign fullback until the end of the 2015 season??

I dont think those guys are 2 years away from been ready, i think we will see some serious game time from some of them in 2014. I will advocate the signing of blokes like Nick Cummins, bringing him home to Queensland but i don't like the concept of signing some foreign marquee fullback who is only going to be here for 2 years, costing a bucketload and taking a position a Queensland youngster could fill.