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Reds 2013

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USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Have to disagree with Gill lacking creativity. He isn't Carlos Spencer but he has an eye for gaps and can actually throw a very good long pass for a loose forward.

Morahan looks so dangerous with ball in hand but still makes stupid little mistakes that detract hugely from his overall performance.

Rocket actually looks really dangerous when he runs off QC (Quade Cooper)..actually he looks pretty dangerous whenever he touches the ball. I love the way he uses his speed as a weapon and I don't want to see him benched next week.

I think I will be doing a write up on Digby after the Lions tour. We will miss him a lot. His meters gained, tackle busts, etc are just ridiculously high and even more ridiculously consistent. Even last year when we had a rotating door at 10 he was pulling 100m a game.
 

something

Jim Clark (26)
Yeah, i really feel that one of the mistakes the reds made in 2013 was not recruiting effectively. It is the exact team as 2012 except for no higgers. Hopefully we recruit better for 2014
 

Wheatman

Chris McKivat (8)
Out of all of them, Gill looks like the best ball player. Not disagreeing about what he does, just he's not to the point that Higgers was with the ability to both bend the line and either give the support player the pass in traffic or kick for himself (yet!). Look forward to when they both play together now, as Gill has improved immensely (and still is), as Wallabies will have two good ball playing, hard/gap running back rowers. Put Mowen at 6 and that would be my Wallabies back row.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I have to say that Cooper is still putting players through gaps. It just seems that the guys going through the gaps are expecting everything to open up for them and are getting tackled with the ball. I'm not a backs backside but something is missing.

Jono lance shows glimpses of more talent not being used. I wonder if we are getting the best out of him.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Will have to see how things shaped up next week. The Stormers defense did a really exemplary job of plugging up the holes of the half-breaks without losing their shape.

It seemed a bit like either the players were overrunning the ball carrier in support or when they didn't the pass wasn't on and was forced anyway.

Aside from a handful of absolutely forced and unnecessary offloads and that little spin in the tackle being used a bit too liberally..Cooper had a very good game and fulfilled the fly half role admirably.

I think the wind played a big factor in his first two kicks missing the mark. Watching him readjust was a testament to him improving his goal kicking this year. He was kicking very well early in the season and I was a bit afraid he'd lost it.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The two SA losses unfortunately - sadly even - confirm what I mostly believed and said all year:

- there is something seriously amiss in the Reds' coaching group's skill set, or motivation, or cohesion, or Link-going distractions, or all of these things. This is demonstrated in many symptoms of the Reds' 2013 performances but the biggest of course is the massive decline since 2011 in the Reds' attacking design, depth of execution and, the result, an alarming consistent lack of try scoring. Looking at last night's game, I'd also again argue that the coaching group is not focussing on or succeeding with individual skills improvements from game to game or month to month and just as badly, crucial 'technical' facets of the teams' skills in restarts, line outs, etc.

Other than generally good defense, very few facets of Reds' play stood out last night as a mark of excellence, there was only marginal at best improvement from the Cheetahs game (and when some raw bad luck played a part in that game). QC (Quade Cooper) was one of our better players, and far too few others stood out in any form. Genia was adequate, but old flaws are creeping back into his game, and the reckless cross-field kick to the wing when we had an excellent try-scoring position on the Stormers' line was foolishly risky at that phase of play and poorly executed. I hope Genia is not starting to believe the OTT praise he's been getting pre BIL.

We must unsentimentally ask: what individual and team skills have improved since 2013 season commencement or indeed, and even more revealingly, since July 2011? Being objective, this 'improvements audit' would show far too little growth in too many crucial team parameters and players. I'd list: defense (somewhat, especially QC (Quade Cooper)'s); Quirk, Schatz and Gill (though this trio have not performed particularly well in SA which is a new concern), maul from line out, and virtually nothing else. And in 2013, we've had way less serious injuries as legitimate excuses than 2012. Given the comparative improvement rate of many others teams and players, this is by no means enough aggregate improvement across the entire spectrum of team capability. In any sport, if you want to stay on top, you have to keep innovating and growing your holistic capabilities and individual capabilities. There's no alternative. One reason is that players will get injured and players will leave - you have to be good enough and growing enough in depth to cope with these realities.

- we must also face the need for personnel changes, we no longer have enough outstanding or simply very consistently good players in key roles. Relying on, for example, Daley, S and A Fainga'a, Lance, etc in crucial starting or bench positions is not going to propel us again into the top ranks. External recruitment will be essential if we are to both upgrade our total capability and compensate for the loss of the likes of Higgers (agree with poster above as to how much we've actually missed him) and Diggers, and generally refresh the team's skills balance.

In summary and standing back, having achieved only 3-4 outstanding, complete Reds' performances in two sequential seasons is simply not good enough 'when greatness calls' and when we have genuine aspirations to once again be S15 champions.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
./...snip.../. External recruitment will be essential if we are to both upgrade our total capability and compensate for the loss of the likes of Higgers (agree with poster above as to how much we've actually missed him) and Diggers, and generally refresh the team's skills balance.


RH, I think that the challenge is more retaining existing talent rather than losing them to other franchises, and then having to reimport.

There is enormous depth in QLD schools and juniors coming through year in year out, not to mention the talent pool available from Rugby Lite.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
RH, I think that the challenge is more retaining existing talent rather than losing them to other franchises, and then having to reimport.

There is enormous depth in QLD schools and juniors coming through year in year out, not to mention the talent pool available from Rugby Lite.

In principle, I agree with you.

But it's not that simple in that talent coming through the home-grown ranks isn't necessarily - just when you need it - at the maturity level required for an S15 standard of play in all those positions that must be filled to a high standard to achieve the right skills balance and powerful enough combinations.

At crucial times for the recent Reds, importing the likes of Robinson, Braid, Samo, Harris, etc have been important calls that have produced results. QLD hasn't been able to generate the totality of just the right talent at just the right time, and to me that's understandable.

My point is that we'll need to dispense with some of the above players (if they're not leaving already) and others and be ruthless and unsentimental in new external recruitment of higher calibre players in certain key positions. If that is we are dead serious about pulling another S15 title ASAP. And we may have already left the required changes a year too late.
 

youngone

Allen Oxlade (6)
But it's not that simple in that talent coming through the home-grown ranks isn't necessarily - just when you need it - at the maturity level required for an S15 standard of play in all those positions that must be filled to a high standard to achieve the right skills balance and powerful enough combinations.


I remember Ewen McKenzie writing last year about how a successful team has 35-40 Super Rugby ready players... I don't know if the Reds really have 30 this year.

The JWC is always awkwardly timed too, so players who could be with the squad full time are being shipped all over the country to camps and when they might actually get their chance to play Super rugby during the test window (like fringe NRL players at Origin time), they can't as they are being sent to the ends of the earth to play U20s (Browning, CFS, Kite, UJ Seutuni etc)
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I think the Reds captaincy problem has been Genia asserting too much influence and continually pushing Horwill to kick for the corner and go for the try. Horwill just needs to tell Genia who the boss is

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2

Disagree. I think Horwill is following coaches orders. Genia I expect would be more likely to go for the points.
 

Tangawizi

Peter Fenwicke (45)
The Reds really have done a fantastic job of turning Suncorp into their Fortress since Link turned up.

Since 2010 in 30 regular season matches they've won 25, drawn 1 and lost 4. We lost 4 matches at Suncorp in 2009 alone.

So well done to Link and the Reds of 2010 to 2013.

Just hope next years squad can keep those stats going.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
The Reds really have done a fantastic job of turning Suncorp into their Fortress since Link turned up.

Since 2010 in 30 regular season matches they've won 25, drawn 1 and lost 4. We lost 4 matches at Suncorp in 2009 alone.

So well done to Link and the Reds of 2010 to 2013.

Just hope next years squad can keep those stats going.

Surely one of the highest home ground winning ratios in the competition
 
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