Rebels vs Force, Round 10, 2014

[Forcefield]

Looked like he did fuck all to me. If you are going to be a player who does a little and does it bloody well (a la Palu), you'd better do it bloody well. You could argue that Higgers didn't make as many tackles because the Rebels had the majority of the ball, but then why did he only make as many runs as McCalman for effectively the same distance? And why don't we remember him for pulling off any shit-hot game changing plays? The only thing I remember him doing was scoring that try and going off the back of a dominant scrum it wasn't the hardest job in the world.

 

[en_force_er]

Looked like he did fuck all to me. If you are going to be a player who does a little and does it bloody well (a la Palu), you'd better do it bloody well. You could argue that Higgers didn't make as many tackles because the Rebels had the majority of the ball, but then why did he only make as many runs as McCalman for effectively the same distance? And why don't we remember him for pulling off any shit-hot game changing plays? The only thing I remember him doing was scoring that try and going off the back of a dominant scrum it wasn't the hardest job in the world.

Firstly, Cliffy is (by the stats) Australia's most effective ruck forward. If you're going to cite McCalman's stats then you're obviously a man who values that kind of data.

Secondly, Higgers' try undoubtably was the key point of the game. The scrum turned the unfavourable direction, there were bodies everywhere and he still had at least 2-3m to make post contact. I'd say it was a key moment handled well and I think you'd usually see the ball go wide before the score in that situation.

 

[farva]

Firstly, Cliffy is (by the stats) Australia's most effective ruck forward. If you're going to cite McCalman's stats then you're obviously a man who values that kind of data.

Secondly, Higgers' try undoubtably was the key point of the game. The scrum turned the unfavourable direction, there were bodies everywhere and he still had at least 2-3m to make post contact. I'd say it was a key moment handled well and I think you'd usually see the ball go wide before the score in that situation.

The key point of the game was when the Force elected to take a tap when they won a penalty in the rebels 22, attacked the line for a further 10 or so phases but couldn't break the line, won another penalty and elected to take the three. Big win for the Rebels there.

 

[farva]

Talking about dominant scrims, the Rebels surprised me there. The Force pack are no slouches and are good scrummages. But both Cowan and Longbottom were comprehensively beaten by their opposite number. Where did that come from?

 

[KevinO]

Talking about dominant scrims, the Rebels surprised me there. The Force pack are no slouches and are good scrummages. But both Cowan and Longbottom were comprehensively beaten by their opposite number. Where did that come from?

Seems like Neville and Jones is a better combo for backing up the front row in the scrum. Neville might have done enough to keep Pyle on the bench for a few more games.

 

[tranquility]

Noone on here would be surprised if Pyle wasn't powerful in the scrum would they? Neville and Jones would have to add more grunt at scrum time as a combo.

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe there's a reason Pyle was never picked in a Wallaby squad.

 

[Forcefield]

Firstly, Cliffy is (by the stats) Australia's most effective ruck forward. If you're going to cite McCalman's stats then you're obviously a man who values that kind of data.

Secondly, Higgers' try undoubtably was the key point of the game. The scrum turned the unfavourable direction, there were bodies everywhere and he still had at least 2-3m to make post contact. I'd say it was a key moment handled well and I think you'd usually see the ball go wide before the score in that situation.

I value any kind of data. To disregard stats is crazy. Of course they aren't the be all and end all. The point is that Higgers did not make up for the limited amount of tackles he had to make by doing anything of note. Despite the limited possession the Force had, McCalman was easily able to match the number of runs and distance gained by runs of Higginbotham.

At the moment Higgers and McCalman are slogging it out to see who will take the bench backrow spot and I reckon Higginbotham still has a lot to prove.

 

[Highlander35]

Great job Saints. Ideal world the Gastro and Perth flight give us the run.

Sent from my LG-P713 using Tapatalk

 

[qwerty51]

There's room for both of them on the bench. With Fardy starting in the backrow and Higgers being an excellent lineout operator I don't see why we can't play two backrowers instead of a lock on the bench.

 

[KevinO]

I don't see why we can't play two backrowers instead of a lock on the bench.

Because you need to trial some of the locks ahead of next years world cup if you are going to stand any chance of knowing who your best 30 man squad is going to be.

 

[Hawko]

Talking about dominant scrims, the Rebels surprised me there. The Force pack are no slouches and are good scrummages. But both Cowan and Longbottom were comprehensively beaten by their opposite number. Where did that come from?

Fatigue after last week.

 

[Nipper]

As a percentage of total tackles made by both teams it's pretty on par, I think Higgers may have even made a higher percentage of tackles. Plus like you've said, the disparity in stats raises questions.

I always balk a bit at the 'tackles made' stat because it's so inconclusive. Were they the tackler or tackle assist? Were they dominant tackles? I feel like stats like tries scored and rucks attended are relevant too, which aren't here.

IDK mate, I just think stats aren't too helpful unless you REALLY go into depth. Us armchair experts aren't privy to that kind of data gathering.

I think sometimes qualitative can be as good as quantitative game assessment and IMO qualitatively Higgers played better.

So, you're OK with your Wallaby #8 missing 1/3 of his tackles?

Watching the match, he didn't make an impact other than the try - and the stats prove that out.

As someone else said, McCalman killed him in the tackle count, and had comparable attacking numbers on MUCH less ball. So, I struggle to see where he was "outstanding", or even "really good" for that matter.

And giving away 3 pts in a tight match for a dumb penalty? Fact is, he has too many brain farts to be an international #8. He's a liability, and he hasn't cut it in his opportunities with the Wallabies.

To be fair, neither has McCalman.

 

[en_force_er]

So, you're OK with your Wallaby #8 missing 1/3 of his tackles?

Watching the match, he didn't make an impact other than the try - and the stats prove that out.

As someone else said, McCalman killed him in the tackle count, and had comparable attacking numbers on MUCH less ball. So, I struggle to see where he was "outstanding", or even "really good" for that matter.

And giving away 3 pts in a tight match for a dumb penalty? Fact is, he has too many brain farts to be an international #8. He's a liability, and he hasn't cut it in his opportunities with the Wallabies.

To be fair, neither has McCalman.

To say someone didn't have any impact when their try that was the 'dagger' is a bit odd. That try was probably what put the game beyond reach and was not as simple as some might think, it came from a good read of the situation and had plenty of post contact metres.


Like I said, I'd be interested in seeing the context of those missed tackles. Was he in cover D? Was he chasing a kick perhaps (those are hard tackles to stick)?Etc. Also, it's been covered that there's a couple of very different sets of stats out there.

I think it's a double standard to cite how many run metres McCalman got despite low possession, then address the tackle count like possession was on par. Less tackles were made because there were less tackles to be made.

I think with Australia's locking stocks and where Fardy is mostly playing for the Brums that these two are fighting for a starting jersey. Hell, if Cliffy is injured and Fardy is considered a lock then they could both start.

 

[Nipper]

To say someone didn't have any impact when their try that was the 'dagger' is a bit odd. That try was probably what put the game beyond reach and was not as simple as some might think, it came from a good read of the situation and had plenty of post contact metres.


Like I said, I'd be interested in seeing the context of those missed tackles. Was he in cover D? Was he chasing a kick perhaps (those are hard tackles to stick)?Etc. Also, it's been covered that there's a couple of very different sets of stats out there.

I think it's a double standard to cite how many run metres McCalman got despite low possession, then address the tackle count like possession was on par. Less tackles were made because there were less tackles to be made.

I think with Australia's locking stocks and where Fardy is mostly playing for the Brums that these two are fighting for a starting jersey. Hell, if Cliffy is injured and Fardy is considered a lock then they could both start.

OK, we'll make it a little more apples : apples. Higgers 66% tackle completion; McCalman 92% tackle completion. Posession, number of tackles - neither have any bearing. I think that the contrast is fairly stark.

Higgers had a nice try. Good on him. He capitalized on a pack going forward and attacked the two smallest defenders. Just as any #8 should. But, again, to say he had an outstanding game just isn't borne out by the stats (or just by watching the game).

So, he scored 5 points and gave up 3. Outstanding.

 

[Nipper]

OK, we'll make it a little more apples : apples. Higgers 66% tackle completion; McCalman 92% tackle completion. Posession, number of tackles - neither have any bearing. I think that the contrast is fairly stark.

Higgers had a nice try. Good on him. He capitalized on a pack going forward and attacked the two smallest defenders. Just as any #8 should. But, again, to say he had an outstanding game just isn't borne out by the stats (or just by watching the game).

So, he scored 5 points and gave up 3. Outstanding.

Clarification - the official SANZAR site has Higgers with 14 carries for 24m.

 

[AFL_Converted]

I am a big fan of Higgers and at top form I think he adds more to the wobs just because of his mongrel factor. Benny Mac does not have that.

Having said that Higgers is way down in his form this year. Last year he was an inspiration and near unstoppable. This year he seems a bit lost.

I think eight is one of our weekest positions at international level. We have a few good soop level eights but none of them really step up.

I think Jones is still a bit raw and gives up the ball too much in attack but I would have him in the extended wobs training squad at least.

Does anyone know why Heggarty takes all the sideline penalty kicks? He makes touch each time but rarely makes any real distance.

 

[Hammeroid]

Overall I think that was the best refing performance I have seen this year. Great job in letting the game flow and only picking up critical indiscretions.

Sorry this is the Rebels vs Force thread. Ref was seriously bad "jumping into tackles'

 

[Hoolly Doolly]

Bob Dwyer doesnt seem to rate Higgenbotham either.......

 

[oztimmay]

Bob Dwyer doesnt seem to rate Higgenbotham either...

Got a reference for that? All I can find is a write-up from bob on GAGR after the match in Perth.