Rebels vs Crusaders, Rnd 4, 14 March 2014 @ AAMI

[swingpass]

Whoever criticised me earlier in this thread should apologise everything we saw in the game showed what I was talking about


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what mitchell ?
he did absolutely everything he was supposed to do last night. no fuckin aimless kicks, tackled really well including one try saver in the first half and made the only play that lead to the rebels best try scoring opportunity in that half, kicked away by mitch inman.
are you sure he didn't steal your girlfriend ?

 

[kiap]

Sometimes, despite our best endeavours, our attempts at wit are either totally misunderstood or turn out to be very laboured.
.

Ain't that the truth.

And some of the best jokes are told straight.

 

[Scythe]

what mitchell ?
he did absolutely everything he was supposed to do last night. no fuckin aimless kicks, tackled really well including one try saver in the first half and made the only play that lead to the rebels best try scoring opportunity in that half, kicked away by mitch inman.
are you sure he didn't steal your girlfriend ?

No he wasn't amazing but more about the team dynamic and Woodward - shame he started the season so well


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[199madmave]

Fugistaller was the MOM in my opinion....always so solid.....how did english (did he touch the ball) get named MOM?..
The Rebs looked so flat last night...crusaders were no better. it was boring rugby at its worst. 14,000 fans won't keep turning up to watch that rubbish!!!!

 

[swingpass]

Fugistaller was the MOM in my opinion..always so solid...how did english (did he touch the ball) get named MOM?..
The Rebs looked so flat last night.crusaders were no better. it was boring rugby at its worst

i think MOM is voted for by the crowd, perhaps trying to be ironic. he got a single touch at the 75 minute mark as the rebels started to play with, as opposed to, without the ball. agree fuglistaller was probably rebs best last night.

 

[Bruce Ross]

kingston can play at fullback, except he probably run too much for the current game plan

A couple of points. Kingston will play quite a number of Tests, probably at fullback. He should be encouraged to run given that he has the best feet in Australian rugby and almost invariably finds appropriate support at the end of his runs.

Your mention of "game plan", swingpass, highlights a problem which has bedevilled Australian rugby, and shows - admittedly preliminary - signs of restricting the potential of this young Rebels side. If their very enthusiastic and adventurous play against the Cheetahs, particularly in the first half, was in defiance of the game plan then their coach would have been well advised to revise or bin said game plan.

In my opinion the preoccupation with structured game plans dates from Rod Macqueen's time as Wallabies and Brumbies coach. There was a general misperception of the reasons for his success, which was very largely due to his introduction of sound principles of business organisation and much less to his enthusiastic adoption of American football style "playbooks". A Wallabies assistant coach once proudly showed me the lineout playbook which was 3 cm thick.

A complicated phase in American football might last for two seconds and involve a single pass, after which everyone stops and has a rest while the quarterback mentally selects from his multi-page playbook. Rugby is a little more complex and unpredictable than that.

Speaking of game plans, in the match against the Force there is reason to suspect that the coach had left the plan titled, "Playing into the wind", back in his hotel room.
.

 

[swingpass]

A couple of points. Kingston will play quite a number of Tests, probably at fullback. He should be encouraged to run given that he has the best feet in Australian rugby and almost invariably finds appropriate support at the end of his runs.

Your mention of "game plan", swingpass, highlights a problem which has bedevilled Australian rugby, and shows - admittedly preliminary - signs of restricting the potential of this young Rebels side. If their very enthusiastic and adventurous play against the Cheetahs, particularly in the first half, was in defiance of the game plan then their coach would have been well advised to revise or bin said game plan.
Speaking of game plans, in the match against the Force there is reason to suspect that the coach had left the plan titled, "Playing into the wind", back in his hotel room.
.

seems the irony was lost

i think he should be in our starting 15 either on the wing or at fullback

with regards to the game plan, to my eyes, the team now looks like they are not certain what to do in a given situation. beginning to think rather than react and create, slowing the response time, losing the opportunity and then throwing an ill timed pass or putting in a poor kick under pressure.

the positives from last night were the defence, burgess going apeshit at roberts for kicking the ball and the last 10 minutes when they began to attack and support the ball carrier.

i just hope the team can better balance "field position" versus using the ball effectively wherever on the pitch you have possession

 

[Bruce Ross]

seems the irony was lost

It wasn't.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Whoever criticised me earlier in this thread should apologise everything we saw in the game showed what I was talking about


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Do you mind if I use this as my signature?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Any good loosehead is aiming to drive under his opponents chest.

Since Crockett seems to have non bedding knees in order to do that he drives down from the hips and then comes up mean that immediately after engagement his shoulders are lower then his hips.
That is illegal - pure and simple.
Under the old laws the refs waited to see whether the LHP would regain equilibrium having dived under the THP.
These laws were supposed to stop that wait.
He and all other props who let the shoulder get below their hip at any time for any reason must be penalised immediately - i.e. without waiting to see if they can get back into a legal position.
This is not an accidental process, IMO.

 

[Dan54]

I thought I watched Crockett using his knees to cause problems for Weekes well last night, what he seemed to be doing was bending his knees, as he straightened them he was taking Weekes up. Just what I thought I saw in a couple of scrums anyway.

 

[Dumbledore]

Woodward is not the answer to any question.

We have to cull the second rate starting with this bloke. Seriously, under any sort of pressure last year he turned to water. Do people forget so easily the penalty kicks that regularly went dead when on attack and other malfunctions?

We have to move on and I think we cut some egos but didn't really plan this year through at all.

I can't see this year being any less than a disaster that the club might not survive.

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Okay, who else needs culling? Woodward has, at times, been excellent for us. He's been badly out of sorts the last couple of weeks though. No single club is made up of 23 A-list players, it just isn't possible. Finding the proper gameplan for your players, and then teaching them to execute, should be possible though. Look at the Chiefs last night, they had some absolute no-names out there - Schwalgar, Symons, Lowe, Marshall, Squire... Nanai-Williams, Macintosh, Ngatai and Anscombe are good but they're hardly bashing down the door of the All Blacks and yet they put 36 points on the Stormers.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Dumbledore, the Chiefs recent performances validate the old saying that a Champion Team will beat a team of Champions.

There is no real reason that the Rebels can not develop into a champion team. The divestment of some of their champions at the end of last season should have helped them on that journey.

Is it too early to review the totality of the 2014 Rebels performances?

Team performance issues are often related to issues outside the playing roster.

 

[Dumbledore]

Still too early I think. It's what so frustrating about the last couple of weeks. Week one the team played above itself, the last couple they just haven't at all. I don't know whether that's a coaching issue, a player attitude problem or some combination of the two. There's really no way of knowing from the outside unfortunately.

 

[teach]

Since Crockett seems to have non bedding knees in order to do that he drives down from the hips and then comes up mean that immediately after engagement his shoulders are lower then his hips.
That is illegal - pure and simple.
Under the old laws the refs waited to see whether the LHP would regain equilibrium having dived under the THP.
These laws were supposed to stop that wait.
He and all other props who let the shoulder get below their hip at any time for any reason must be penalised immediately - i.e. without waiting to see if they can get back into a legal position.
This is not an accidental process, IMO.

Oh yes. i am not overly fond of Crockett myself. But as I stated, I think his weak opposition made him look good.

 

[swingpass]

dumbledore, agree completely.
having now watched the game on TV and divesting myself of some of my pent up frustration from last evening there are a few things evident to me.
first the positives. the defence was really very good last night, few missed tackles and good pressure
the ability to attack is clearly there
Mc Mahon had yet another very good game
the bench all contributed when given the chance

the negatives. in short poor option taking and bad execution continue to plague the rebels
as in previous years, crucial failures at set piece when attacking killed the momentum, line out overthrow at 28', attacking 5m scrum @ 30', not straight throw @ 59', all wasted scoring opportunities.

the kicking, we kicked less than the crusaders but very few were effective and none, not one, of the attacking kicks was contestable or well placed or the correct option. 3 poorly executed kicks (Woodward 2 and Inman) around the 20 min mark of the first half and a whole series of fucking aimless kicks around the 52nd to 54th minute lost ground and eventually led to the crusaders try. then with us chasing the game a further 3 - 4 kicks around 62-63 minutes FFS!
we seem unable to kick long enough or accurately enough or at the right time

we give away a lot of penalties, this is to be expected with contesting the breakdown, but stupid ones such as not retiring after a kick are just dumb.

the good and bad at the same time. we contest the breakdown really well and then really poorly. win counter rucking, but are also sloppy at times with entry into attacking rucks. accuracy needs improvement.

the scrum. it was supposed to be a potent weapon this year. well not when Mr Leckie referees us. i am no front row guru, but Crockett clearly hinges on every scrum, i think this is the reason why he was omitted from the AB's at RWC, because international refs penalised him so often. last night Weekes got penalised for being shorter than his opponent ! the second half scrums were by and large pretty good.

long rant i know

the game last night was absolutely within the rebels grasp, but errors in tactics and skill execution killed it. i dont think the rebels will lose too many games by big margins because their defence is good. whether we win any because of it is another matter. i can see lots of teams getting 15 - 21 points a game from penalties alone.

let's hope the work in progress is a rapid build and the Cheetahs game not a one off false dawn

 

[swingpass]

Still too early I think. It's what so frustrating about the last couple of weeks. Week one the team played above itself, the last couple they just haven't at all. I don't know whether that's a coaching issue, a player attitude problem or some combination of the two. There's really no way of knowing from the outside unfortunately.

coach > players responsibilty

 

[oztimmay]

long rant i know

Long and very accurate for me. For me I was a bit disheartened by the lineout throws, those crucial errors did really cost us. I cant work out if it's pat's throws or the jump timing. I think though since we didn't get it right we should have reverted to safe number 2 ball. Shota seemed to tidy things up when he hit the turf and I don't think it will be long before he's starting again.


I think someone needs to have a chat with Gus. Some of those kicking options when he was on was just madness and it either shows indecisiveness or poor decision making. I know he covers two critical positions off the bench, but I think we may need to think if we can cover this better.

Really loved the defensive work around the ground, just a few times we didn't get it right around the ruck base and it cost us three points. Can't say much more here other than get the entry channel right.

I gave up on the scrum lottery after lorenzo got pinged for boring in. Even from the end of the ground it was as obvious wyatt was boring on. Still, if you can get away with it...

We have some wonderful defense, but somehow our attack has gone to sleep for the last few weeks. I want to see more of those line bending runs that make us so dangerous and I know we got it. Some luck too will help, especially with the ref.

Onward and upwards for Sydney town, where we face some grumpy 'tahs after their loss to the poines.

 

[spectator]

Need a solid performance against the Tah's. Can't see a win but a thrashing could be morale sapping.

 

[AFL_Converted]

A long rant swingpass but I think you nailed it with the comments on defense. I thought we did really well there. I thought the Crusaders were well organised in defense and we'll spread too. It would have been hard for the best teams to crack that but every time we made a fee metres we lost it with skill errors. I have not seen the stats but how many knock ons did we have? And too many before the tackle was made.

I cannot comment on the scrum penalties )I have no idea what goes on in there, I always played on the wing. I did comment to my mate that the ref was way to large a part on the game. The entire thing was dominated by his whistle.

Did anybody hear Todd Blackadder's comments after the game? No credit given to the rebels defense it was the Crusaders that had failed. That guy never credits us and the saders have always struggled against us, even in trials.