Rebels v Waratahs Round 2 - 2012R02 - Dunlop Shield III
- Thread starter FiveStarStu
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suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
I was actually thinking the same thing. I wonder that there were so many Tahs infringing that Bryce just picked the player that stood out the most - TPN. Can understand the need for a card. He could have just thrown all the names in a hat a drew out one.
S
spooony
Guest
Because someone else or the captain of the Tah's was warned prior to that some stage in the match. The refs do not warn each player then sin bin him. No a warning to 1 means a warning to all in that team. So if its your first offense does not matter you will get send to the bin as the team was warned already.
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
Was the team warned? Saw the reb warned? Don't have a problem with someone being sent off. Just think TPN was unluck to be the one picked.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought the penalty try was warranted as there was no question that it was deliberately brought down; but it looked more like Paddy Ryan was the main offender in pulling it down to me. For those interested, a replay is on Fox Sports 3 now (12:20pm Sat) and the maul in question will be in about 15 mins.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
The Tahs pigs were so far over their opponents at ruck time that it gave the Tahs backs a real chance to shine. Another good effort at ruck time, but the discipline needs work. Giving away 4 - 5 kickable penalties against good teams will hurt them. I can't wait till Cutch gets back, as I think he'll balance out the pack better than Alcock, who is a strong runner but less of a natural openside than Cutch. And Elsom can warm the bench behind Dennis when he returns.
What has happened to the Tahs' maul defence? Why the Reds and Rebels both didn't try to maul more I don't know. The Tahs defence on the maul that led to the penalty try was bad, but the maul defence where the Reds marched them back about 15m to 20m last week was worse.
Agree with FP - the Tahs reserves looked a couple steps below. Paddy Ryan has given away a couple of scrum penalties over the last few weeks, and looks like he needs some more time to develop, but he's only 23. I can't see the big wraps on S. Timani are yet warranted, and Jenkins' impact was giving away silly penalties.
Pretorius, Hangers, Carter and Foley were my picks of the backs, all of them looked great I thought, but they can thank the forwards for their effort. In particular, Carter seems to have a huge workload - he looks to have a huge engine. Foley also runs some nice lines from the back and provides a nice spark that was missing with Beale gone.
From the other backs, Kingston looks handy with a nice step and is a real trier but looks a little slow for the wing. Promising player, however. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was industrious, and looked for work and got involved a lot, but didn't make as big an impact as I thought. Still had a good game.
Probably the only bit of criticism is for Horne, who again looked poor and missed plenty of tackles. It seems a big technique problem - he sets his feet and lines up a big hit. Then players with a step, like Shipperley last week and Inman this week, go right past. He also fell off a couple as well.
What has happened to the Tahs' maul defence? Why the Reds and Rebels both didn't try to maul more I don't know. The Tahs defence on the maul that led to the penalty try was bad, but the maul defence where the Reds marched them back about 15m to 20m last week was worse.
Agree with FP - the Tahs reserves looked a couple steps below. Paddy Ryan has given away a couple of scrum penalties over the last few weeks, and looks like he needs some more time to develop, but he's only 23. I can't see the big wraps on S. Timani are yet warranted, and Jenkins' impact was giving away silly penalties.
Pretorius, Hangers, Carter and Foley were my picks of the backs, all of them looked great I thought, but they can thank the forwards for their effort. In particular, Carter seems to have a huge workload - he looks to have a huge engine. Foley also runs some nice lines from the back and provides a nice spark that was missing with Beale gone.
From the other backs, Kingston looks handy with a nice step and is a real trier but looks a little slow for the wing. Promising player, however. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was industrious, and looked for work and got involved a lot, but didn't make as big an impact as I thought. Still had a good game.
Probably the only bit of criticism is for Horne, who again looked poor and missed plenty of tackles. It seems a big technique problem - he sets his feet and lines up a big hit. Then players with a step, like Shipperley last week and Inman this week, go right past. He also fell off a couple as well.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
For the Rebels - their tactics at ruck time were woeful. The second Carter try had 15 phases of lead up, and I reckon the Rebels competed at maybe 2 of those rucks, at most. If you let the Tahs forward endlessly recycle and roll forward with uncontested ball, they will find space for the backs. Can someone teach the Rebels how to counter ruck? Can the Rebels pick some players who will compete on the ground, or at least disrupt Tahs ball?
Regarding choosing to kick at goal, maybe Delve has J'OC in his Fantasy Rugby team?
The problem for me is that the Rebels are half a team. Delve is wonderful from the starting forwards and is the cornerstone from the pack. Weeks is ok, Pyle is ok. Jones has potential, and Freier is coming back from injury. Chamberlain was woeful.
The backs are a bit better, but when your halves don't tackle and needlessly kick your ball away, often poorly, there's not much you can do. Phipps and Cipriani were awful, which is a shame, as the midfield of J'OC and Inman looks really promising, and Gerrard tried hard from the back.
Regarding choosing to kick at goal, maybe Delve has J'OC in his Fantasy Rugby team?
The problem for me is that the Rebels are half a team. Delve is wonderful from the starting forwards and is the cornerstone from the pack. Weeks is ok, Pyle is ok. Jones has potential, and Freier is coming back from injury. Chamberlain was woeful.
The backs are a bit better, but when your halves don't tackle and needlessly kick your ball away, often poorly, there's not much you can do. Phipps and Cipriani were awful, which is a shame, as the midfield of J'OC and Inman looks really promising, and Gerrard tried hard from the back.
N
Newter
Guest
Noticed his leadership most of all in this game. He's running the show up front. Such a composed hand at the back of the ruck, knows when to slow it down and gather some men behind him.
N
Newter
Guest
Very concerned about Ashley-Cooper, who might be running the ball a lot but does basically nothing with it. He looks like he's just doing enough to keep getting selected, and nothing more. Over the hill?
yeah, it is a challenge to decide where the back of the maul is as the maul rolls around the corner
I did think it was a but harsh to award a penalty try and a binning, but I am a Tahs supporter.
I thought the penalty try and a final team warning would have been more reasonable and would they have ended up with someone else in the bin a few minutes later the way they were playing (or not playing)
I thought he was the best wing on the field last night, great under the high ball, some good runs, good defence - just a bit of a hog (but he always has been)
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I agree, pretty much. Was surprised by the penalty try, but on second viewing I definitely thought it justified. Sin binning, however, looked harsh.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
The defense of the make wasn't good but the fact that it started already bound after the pass at the line out meant it was obstruction to begin with if you wanted to get really technical.
I didn't think TPN was actually the culprit, should have come back for the Robbo penalty. He got TPN for collapsing were he actually just ran through it.
Still happy to say the Rebels have never crossed the line. Thought NSW could have put a couple more on though.
I didn't think TPN was actually the culprit, should have come back for the Robbo penalty. He got TPN for collapsing were he actually just ran through it.
Still happy to say the Rebels have never crossed the line. Thought NSW could have put a couple more on though.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Not a bad 1st half from the Tahs; a pity about the 2nd. Some stray thoughts in no particular order:
- haven't seen a replay today of the maul incident but if it was a fair penalty and a try would probably have been scored but for the infraction, then a penalty try was the fair result. What gets up my nose is referees who don't have the nuts to award a penalty try, first up, but issue warnings instead.
- have no objection to both a penalty try and a yellow card being awarded for the same incident. We are not used to both being awarded, but that has nothing to do with the laws. It has more to do with conventions that referees have established over the years.
- TPN was carded, but if that was wrong I thought that somebody else pulled the maul down (Ryan, I think) and deserved the same; so the Tahs got what they deserved.
- the big negative for the Tahs in this game was the same as in Rd.1: their lack of discipline. Coach Foley told me a few weeks ago that the Tahs had a visit from the ref gurus in the pre-season, as other Super teams had; so it's something that has to be revisited. Douglas had a good game but he got pinged a couple of times in about as many minutes. He wasn't the Lone Ranger either: Alcock, Jenkins and others, acted as though the laws had changed overnight.
- Bryce made a couple of odd decisions apart from the maul, if that was odd, but I thought he had a good game otherwise. I was looking for infringements from the Tahs for a period of the match and he pinged most of them.
- I don't know which team thought they won the niggle contest, probably both did, but it distracted the Tahs from their mission in the 2nd half of continuing what they had done in the 1st. Whatever, it coincided with the Rebels showing more starch.
- I don't know what Muggleton, the Rebels defensive coach, told the Rebels at oranges but, whatever it was, he should have said it before the game started: they looked like a real team in the 2nd half.
- Was good to see 6. Luke Jones starting in Super Rugby when he deserved to be. Folks may understand a bit now what some have talked about since his school days in 2009. He got a full Super contract straight out of school before he made his bones and the contract did him no favours - but now you can see the promise. Watch this space: he will be a 3M kind of player.
- One can understand why folks don't want AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to be on the wing, where he played very well by the way, but B. Foley had to start after his cameo in Rd.1. He is still to be tested in 80 minutes of tight play as a custodian fullback, but his instinctive running and support play is a big plus for a Tahs attack without a Beale - or a Mitchell or Turner, for that matter.
- Coach Foley should give the fellow who wore the 12 jersey, and stepped off his right foot to beat Gerrard to score, another run next week. He bore an uncanny resemblance to Tom Carter.
- Hangers had a top all round game: one of his best for the Tahs - but we need to see that against a top team. His little mate inside him, Pretorius, was also a handful, sometimes by doing nothing but making defenders think he would. His long and accurate pass, keeping the shoulder under the chin like a golfer, should be required viewing for young scrummies. It won't be for everybody, but it's an option they should look at.
- Dennis had another good game, taking the ball up, Sharpie-like. Palu was brutish again though one held one's breath for his well-being a few times. Lopeti looked good after he replaced Palu when he wasn't being a goose. He could be anything this lad in a year or two - like Jones for the Rebels. Kepu is coming into his work after a spell isn't he? It's good to see a THP who is a top scrummager and also plays well in other ways.
- haven't seen a replay today of the maul incident but if it was a fair penalty and a try would probably have been scored but for the infraction, then a penalty try was the fair result. What gets up my nose is referees who don't have the nuts to award a penalty try, first up, but issue warnings instead.
- have no objection to both a penalty try and a yellow card being awarded for the same incident. We are not used to both being awarded, but that has nothing to do with the laws. It has more to do with conventions that referees have established over the years.
- TPN was carded, but if that was wrong I thought that somebody else pulled the maul down (Ryan, I think) and deserved the same; so the Tahs got what they deserved.
- the big negative for the Tahs in this game was the same as in Rd.1: their lack of discipline. Coach Foley told me a few weeks ago that the Tahs had a visit from the ref gurus in the pre-season, as other Super teams had; so it's something that has to be revisited. Douglas had a good game but he got pinged a couple of times in about as many minutes. He wasn't the Lone Ranger either: Alcock, Jenkins and others, acted as though the laws had changed overnight.
- Bryce made a couple of odd decisions apart from the maul, if that was odd, but I thought he had a good game otherwise. I was looking for infringements from the Tahs for a period of the match and he pinged most of them.
- I don't know which team thought they won the niggle contest, probably both did, but it distracted the Tahs from their mission in the 2nd half of continuing what they had done in the 1st. Whatever, it coincided with the Rebels showing more starch.
- I don't know what Muggleton, the Rebels defensive coach, told the Rebels at oranges but, whatever it was, he should have said it before the game started: they looked like a real team in the 2nd half.
- Was good to see 6. Luke Jones starting in Super Rugby when he deserved to be. Folks may understand a bit now what some have talked about since his school days in 2009. He got a full Super contract straight out of school before he made his bones and the contract did him no favours - but now you can see the promise. Watch this space: he will be a 3M kind of player.
- One can understand why folks don't want AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to be on the wing, where he played very well by the way, but B. Foley had to start after his cameo in Rd.1. He is still to be tested in 80 minutes of tight play as a custodian fullback, but his instinctive running and support play is a big plus for a Tahs attack without a Beale - or a Mitchell or Turner, for that matter.
- Coach Foley should give the fellow who wore the 12 jersey, and stepped off his right foot to beat Gerrard to score, another run next week. He bore an uncanny resemblance to Tom Carter.
- Hangers had a top all round game: one of his best for the Tahs - but we need to see that against a top team. His little mate inside him, Pretorius, was also a handful, sometimes by doing nothing but making defenders think he would. His long and accurate pass, keeping the shoulder under the chin like a golfer, should be required viewing for young scrummies. It won't be for everybody, but it's an option they should look at.
- Dennis had another good game, taking the ball up, Sharpie-like. Palu was brutish again though one held one's breath for his well-being a few times. Lopeti looked good after he replaced Palu when he wasn't being a goose. He could be anything this lad in a year or two - like Jones for the Rebels. Kepu is coming into his work after a spell isn't he? It's good to see a THP who is a top scrummager and also plays well in other ways.
FiveStarStu
Bill McLean (32)
Reaching just a bit, WJ
Not sure what to make of last night. The first ten minutes were good, the guys showed a lot of ticker attacking the ball and earned a few pens. Then we just lost it for the rest of the half. 30 missed tackles is just dropping your pants and thinking of England, really.
The second half was a lot better. That's how we need to play to give the competition a shake, and it was good to see, regardless of the result, that we actually CAN play that way.
Just good to have the Rebs back, but we need to improve.
Sir Arthur Higgins
Dick Tooth (41)
foot in mouth re tom carter....
I thought our forwards performed reasonably well (ex chamberlain).
delve is superb. i just wish he had a bit more pace, but he is a great 8 and an excellent leader.
Jones is exciting me and with saffy getting some time at 7 i like our flanks.
real lack of spark in our back line though.
richard kinghi looked good again when he came on and phipps will have a bit of pressure on him. his defence is still poor. cipriani is marginally better on last year and i'd be happy to see JOC (James O'Connor) shift to ten in the future and think inman could be an excellent 12....he also looked great at times at 13.
gerrard looked mostly good but i thought his kicking wasn't at its best. he is again mr consistent and one of our best.
kinghi on more. looking forward to the cheetahs match in two weeks time.
quite dissapointing. an improvement on last year no doubt...but a few more levels needed.
I thought our forwards performed reasonably well (ex chamberlain).
delve is superb. i just wish he had a bit more pace, but he is a great 8 and an excellent leader.
Jones is exciting me and with saffy getting some time at 7 i like our flanks.
real lack of spark in our back line though.
richard kinghi looked good again when he came on and phipps will have a bit of pressure on him. his defence is still poor. cipriani is marginally better on last year and i'd be happy to see JOC (James O'Connor) shift to ten in the future and think inman could be an excellent 12....he also looked great at times at 13.
gerrard looked mostly good but i thought his kicking wasn't at its best. he is again mr consistent and one of our best.
kinghi on more. looking forward to the cheetahs match in two weeks time.
quite dissapointing. an improvement on last year no doubt...but a few more levels needed.
Agree with everything you say, LG, and saved me the effort of posting it. But I must disagree on one thing: watching the game live Pretorius's pass is slower than it looks. Yeah, I know that might sound odd but it isn't as fast as other scrummies, especially Phipps's; this kid can pass the pill beautifully. Not too much wrong with Sarel's balls, but they are a touch slow. At least they aren't high, a scrummie with high balls has a problem. But, by crikey, he likes running through a gap like a startled hare!
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