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REBELS v STORMERS RD 14

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Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
There is nothing to suggest that Habana would have definitely got there first had Phipps not been pulled back. It was a really stupid play by the Stormers player Bezuidenhout.

And stupid play that he is wa-ayyyyyyyyyyyy too experienced, to be able to call an innocent mistake.

If I was his Coach, I would be questioning him very closely about why he pulled such a blatant stunt, in such an obvious - and critical - position.

To go off on (as someone else called it) a Tin Foil Hat theory about Evil Networks manipulating camera angles is just too tragic for words.

Having said that, there were SEVERAL appalling TMO decisions on the weekend.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
By the way, what is the story with the Rebels No. 10 from last week with the dislocated shoulder - out for long?

I have been failry impressed with what I have seen of him this season.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
By the way, what is the story with the Rebels No. 10 from last week with the dislocated shoulder - out for long?

I have been failry impressed with what I have seen of him this season.

There hasn't been much information. I believe he had some sort of minor surgery done on the shoulder although that's based on one report from somewhere I can't remember. I'm not convinced they'll be rushing him back because of the seeming jubilation over Hegarty (the 10 vs the stormers). My take on that is that Hegarty might have been in the right place at the right time and that whomever was wearing the 10 jersey when things started to click for the rest of the team would have looked good.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
There hasn't been much information. I believe he had some sort of minor surgery done on the shoulder although that's based on one report from somewhere I can't remember. I'm not convinced they'll be rushing him back because of the seeming jubilation over Hegarty (the 10 vs the stormers). My take on that is that Hegarty might have been in the right place at the right time and that whomever was wearing the 10 jersey when things started to click for the rest of the team would have looked good.

Do I have the name right - Roberts? Where is he from, and what is the general consensus amongst rebels supporters on his ability?
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
Do I have the name right - Roberts? Where is he from, and what is the general consensus amongst rebels supporters on his ability?
Sydney Uni.

Seemed everyone loved him after his first game but puts a lot of the blame for the SA trashing on him.

Personally I think his a good talent, but prefer him at 15 and not 10 which makes it hard when we have Woodward who is rated very highly and is really playing some good rugby. The best thing with all of these guys are they are young and can still develop.

Tom English has really impressed and would like to see him get a run at 12 and see what he can do in the centers.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
Do I have the name right - Roberts? Where is he from, and what is the general consensus amongst rebels supporters on his ability?

Yeah, Angus Roberts.

Seemed everyone loved him after his first game but puts a lot of the blame for the SA trashing on him.

Unfairly I think. In the situation he played in (on tour in South Africa, team in shambles), it is very unlikely that any young player would have performed well. Unlike Hegarty who has been behind a pack which has been growing in confidence and effectiveness. I am pretty sure that Roberts also would have performed as well or perhaps better in those situations.

Personally I think his a good talent, but prefer him at 15 and not 10 which makes it hard when we have Woodward who is rated very highly and is really playing some good rugby. The best thing with all of these guys are they are young and can still develop.

I am inclined to disagree on your 15 vs 10 distinction. . But I don't like pidgeonholing players like that. It reminds me too much of how people have reacted to KB (Kurtley Beale), saying that he will only ever be a 15, yet has played some damned fine games as 10 for the Rebels.

If you ask me, 15's these days are either 15/10s or 15/Wings. Gus is a 15/10, he has a good kicking game - one of the best at the Rebels that I have seen. That is something that serves him well at 15 or 10. His passing game is also good, he certainly has a much better long pass than Hegarty. My impression of his running game is 'slippery' rather than 'forceful', which I believe is more suited to 10 than 15. Which would be the point of difference between him and Woodward for me, Woodward seems to bring a more direct and aggressive running game than Roberts (which is why I would classify him more as a 15/Wing despite being able to play first receiver when required).

From what I have seen of him, Roberts is more of an old school 5/8th and would do better in situations where he could underplay his hand more, where ha can kick for the corners with his good boot and play a more conservative game in general with the occasional slippery, sniping run. His strengths seem to suit a game somewhat like To'omua provides for the Brumbies, but Roberts has a much better boot. I think he could be a very very good 10, but not necessarily an exciting 10.

Regardless, I reiterate that discarding any player after a couple of bad games on tour to South Africa, as his first starts at 10, would be foolish in the extreme. He has enough skills to play well at the Super Rugby level, but almost no player is a superstar from their first performance.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Congrats to the Rebelle supporters. Stormers have themself to blame and now is gone for the season. Still plenty of rugby left.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Jean de Villiers is a very polished speaker in the after match interviews.

Always frank and honest and never afraid to praise his opponents for their good work.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
Jean de Villiers is a very polished speaker in the after match interviews.

Always frank and honest and never afraid to praise his opponents for their good work.

He was impressive - and I have developed a great respect for the Cheetahs Captain - not due to this season, but 2012, where he was endlessly dignified and pleasant whilst in the miidst of an awful season.
 

Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
Jean de Villiers is a very polished speaker in the after match interviews.

Always frank and honest and never afraid to praise his opponents for their good work.

I have had the privilege of meeting JvD and the reason because he such good speaker is simply because he is very decent guy. One of the good guys in rugby.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
I have had the privilege of meeting JvD and the reason because he such good speaker is simply because he is very decent guy. One of the good guys in rugby.
Think your missing the point. not doubting his a good guy but his interview after the match is a disgrace.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
He was not that humble in defeat. He called the loss an Embarrassment, said he made the right call going for the try on 3 occasions when they only lead by a point.

Didn't give the Rebels any credit for the win or a tough match they put up.

Complete opposite to last season where he was humble and presented Mortlock with a jersey.
 

Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
He was not that humble in defeat. He called the loss an Embarrassment, said he made the right call going for the try on 3 occasions when they only lead by a point.

Didn't give the Rebels any credit for the win or a tough match they put up.

Complete opposite to last season where he was humble and presented Mortlock with a jersey.

Strange how different audiences can focus on different things.

What I heard was a captain who took responsibility for the loss, admitted they were not good enough to win and echoed the disappointment the fans feel about this result and the season. Should he have dropped some meaningless platitude about the Rebels, probably, but fuck, if you need your ego stroked after beating a proud opponent it probably says more about you than your opponent.

In any case, describing his interview as a disgrace isn't really accurate no matter how you look at it.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
He was not that humble in defeat. He called the loss an Embarrassment, said he made the right call going for the try on 3 occasions when they only lead by a point.
and what a embarrasment it is? Massive one. :mad: Going for that fourth try have disaster written all over it and not the first time this happened. How an experience player like him dont understand that you first need to build an innings in rugby I will never understand.

Humble se moer, he farked up big time in this match.
 
D

daz

Guest
He was not that humble in defeat. He called the loss an Embarrassment, said he made the right call going for the try on 3 occasions when they only lead by a point.

Didn't give the Rebels any credit for the win or a tough match they put up.

Complete opposite to last season where he was humble and presented Mortlock with a jersey.

My personal opinion is that I saw an angry captain. He was clearly frustrated at his team for not getting the job done and he has a point; the Rebels could have easily leaked a try or two if the Stormers were a bit more clued up. I quite like a captain being angry after a loss; it shows the fans he cares.

Having said that, his failure to take the points on offer was a massive mistake. You go for the corner when the opposition is clearly on the back foot, or you have no choice because of time to close the gap. He had a golden opportunity to keep the scoreboard ticking over and he didn't take it. I think in the post match review when he watches the tape, he will quietly admit that to himself.

I will say that he did praise the Rebels, although that might have been lost in his facial expression!

And the Mortlock thing was a special event. If Higgers went around presenting his opposite number with presents after every loss I would be a bit worried!
 
D

daz

Guest
And stupid play that he is wa-ayyyyyyyyyyyy too experienced, to be able to call an innocent mistake.

If I was his Coach, I would be questioning him very closely about why he pulled such a blatant stunt, in such an obvious - and critical - position.

It's called a professional foul. I guess he saw a certain try for the Rebels and thought he might get away with a swifty. Sportsmen have done it forever and a day. Dumb decision, yes, but I kinda get why he did it.

I don't think the coach would be too worried about that; more so the yellow that came swiftly afterwards.
 

Rassie

Trevor Allan (34)
It's Phipps.

Phibbs is another halfback who is currently signed to Leicester.

Whilst I think the decision could have easily been a penalty and a yellow card but no penalty try, the penalty try wasn't a ridiculous call. As soon as the Stormers defender grabbed hold of Phipps' jersey and pulled him back there was a risk of there being a penalty try.

There is nothing to suggest that Habana would have definitely got there first had Phipps not been pulled back. It was a really stupid play by the Stormers player Bezuidenhout.
I am not arguing that point. I am arguing the point of the holding back would be irrelevant if the TMO did what was asked for. He asked try or no try which under the jurisdiction which was extended they should have looked at the Higginbottom knock on as well. TMO totally answered a different answer to the question. By doing that he can ignore the knock on and just adjudicate on the foul play. He was clever enough to know that but dumb enough to give a answer to not a question that was asked?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I am not arguing that point. I am arguing the point of the holding back would be irrelevant if the TMO did what was asked for. He asked try or no try which under the jurisdiction which was extended they should have looked at the Higginbottom knock on as well. TMO totally answered a different answer to the question. By doing that he can ignore the knock on and just adjudicate on the foul play. He was clever enough to know that but dumb enough to give a answer to not a question that was asked?

Try or no try is the most general thing a referee can ask for. It covers everything.

If they only want them to check the grounding they can ask for that or if they only want a knock-on checked then they can ask for that.
 

Rassie

Trevor Allan (34)
Try or no try is the most general thing a referee can ask for. It covers everything.

If they only want them to check the grounding they can ask for that or if they only want a knock-on checked then they can ask for that.
Yes but the TMO answered with probable try. By doing that he can skip the knock and just look at the foul play. Wrong answer to the question which skips the knock on. The knock on would make the holding back irrelevant.

Every question have a jurisdiction of the protocol.

1) Is it a try – yes or no?

1. Potential infringement by the team touching the ball down in opposition in-goal
1.1. If after a team in possession of the ball has touched the ball down in their opponents in goal area and any of the match officials have a view that there was a potential infringement, of any nature, before the ball was carried into in-goal by the team that touched the ball down, they may suggest that the referee refers the matter to the TMO for review.
1.2. If the referee agrees to refer the matter to the TMO he will indicate what the potential offence was and where it took place. Potential infringements which must be CLEAR and OBVIOUS are as follows:

Knock-on
 Forward pass
 Player in touch
 Off-side
 Obstruction
 Tackling a player without the ball
Foul play
 Double movement in act of scoring
Referee judgement calls for all other decisions in the game are not included in the protocol and may not be referred to the TMO.
In reviewing the potential offence the TMO must use the criterion on each occasion that the infringement must be clear and obvious if he is to advise the referee not to award a try. If there is any doubt as to whether an offence has occurred or not the TMO must advise that an offence has not occurred.
For forward passes the TMO must not adjudicate on the flight of the ball but on the action of the player who passed the ball, i.e. were the player’s hands passing the ball back to that player’s own goal line.

2) Can you give me a reason why I cannot award a try?

2. Potential infringement by the defending team preventing a try from being scored.
2.1. If the match officials have a view that there was a potential infringement by the
defending team that may have prevented a try being scored they may suggest that
the referee refers the matter to the TMO for review.
2.2. If the referee agrees to refer the matter to the TMO he will indicate what the
potential offence was and where it took place. The offences will normally be an act of
foul play such as obstruction or playing a player without the ball.
2.3. In reviewing the potential offence the TMO must use the criterion on each
occasion that the infringement must be clear and obvious and that but for the
infringement a try would probably have been scored if he is to advise the referee to
award a penalty try. If there is any doubt that a try would be scored the TMO must
advise the award of an appropriate sanction in accordance with Law.
2.4. The TMO may mention issues viewed in addition to those requested by the
referee if it is appropriate to the situation under review.

3) But for the act of foul play – probable try or no try?

3. Potential acts of foul play
3.1. The match officials may suggest that the referee refers the matter to the TMO
for review if they observe an act of foul play where:
They may have only partially observed an act or acts of foul play
 They are unsure of the exact circumstances
 The views of the match officials reporting the act(s) of foul play differ
 There is doubt as to the appropriate sanctions to be applied
3.2. If the referee agrees to refer the matter to the TMO he will indicate that he
wishes the TMO to review the potential act(s) of foul play and to make a
recommendation as to the appropriate sanction(s).
3.3. In reviewing the potential offence the TMO must use the criterion on each
occasion that the infringement must be clear and obvious especially where sanctions
may apply where a player is removed from the field of play either temporarily or
permanently.
3.4. The other match officials may utilise the in stadium screens (where available) to
form a judgement in this matter.
 
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