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Rebels v Force - Round 5 - Super Rugby 2012

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RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Last week the Force negated the Waratah scrum, which is the Australian benchmark. It was therefore no surprise that they towelled up the Rebels, who were going backward all night against the Tahs. The Force scrum is severely underated. Ma'afu, Charles, Longbottom, Cowan will dish it up to a lot of other teams this year. Sad to say it won't be well used by the princesses out the back.

Proves once more - if it was ever needed - that a good scrum capability is a necessary but by no means sufficient attribute of constructing a consistently winning S15 team. In fact, the Reds won in 2011 with what I'd term a 'just good enough' scrum, way below best in class but their individual forwards played vital roles in other aspects of the Reds' attacking game.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
....No excuses the Force should have put the Rebels away without question. Reds Happy....hard for members to get action taken at a board level to get the hard changes made to put the team on the right path. Yes I am sick of going nowhere after being a member 7 years.....

Moono, I sense and empathise with your pain and frustration, you come across as a great fan of your team and good on you. Believe me, in the 2007-2009 period I was aghast at the Reds' mediocrity and chronic failure despite the great rugby talent and local 'rugby feeder' systems in their midst. I soon identified the utter incompetence, strategic indolence, there-for-the-networking-gains-not-for-the-code's-health of most of the QRU board members of that period.

The governance and structural problem was that, although the QRU is/was in effect dependent upon the ARU's annual income support (as are all the Aus RUs), the ARU had no effective working executive model by which it would objectively measure the QRU's actual business and game performance over time and then, if manifestly inadequate, be able to intervene and enforce governance and board-level clean outs and upgrades (just as a business holding company typically would if one or more of its major divisions failed to perform and develop over time). Instead, the the then QRU bumbled along in protective delusional mode, took no honest self-corrective measures, and disaster ultimately struck in late 2009 as gate and sponsor income collapsed leading the QRU to admit it was de facto bankrupt. c.40% of Aus rugby nearly disappeared down the toilet...and it could be seen as coming for at least 2-3 years prior.

Sorry to repeat, but I honestly see a less severe, but sadly very similar, version of this same syndrome emerging wrt to Rugby WA and its Force.

What needs to urgently occur is either (a) for the ARU to reform the constitutional structure of Aus rugby (as the NRL has just admirably done and the far-better-managed AFL did years back), or (b) for it to have the testicular fortitude to simply enforce that, over time, if franchises do not comply with pre-determined medium term business performance and code developmental KPIs, then the ARU will insist on management/board changes, and/or withdraw its core financial support until such changes are made. These KPIs would likely be items such as: gradually improving annual moving average S15 w-l % ratios (tailored fairly to any one RU's age and stage and rugby market size), average S15 final ladder position improvement over say 3 year periods, local rugby participation (or similar stat) % growth rates over time, development of local grade competition depth of teams/players, number of Wallabies developed over time from State RU sources, etc, etc. I'm not being prescriptive here (as the right KPIs would need careful formulation), but you get my general idea I'm sure.

All that local RU boards seem genuinely accountable (to the rugby public and ARU) for today are: (i) are my excuses for mediocrity going over OK in the rugby media (ii) are my 'blame external factors' lines in good enough shape and (iii) am I avoiding insolvency this year? That's about it, and as long as these 3 are in vaguely positive territory, nothing whatsoever changes, nothing, even if crowds are in real decline, and non-ARU-fed income as well. There is no genuine accountability for code-enhancing prosperity, there is no commonly defined set of central KPIs than can be objectively measured, there is no clear standard for background or competency types for board positions, there is no 'punishment' of any kind for years of poor code and/or S15 w-l mediocrity and general local RU business performance. It's as though these State RUs are effectively out-of orbit-sputniks coursing their own paths through an inaccessible galaxy....whilst we fans watch on in impotent dismay.

It's the whole rugby code and its Aussie sports market share that's the sad loser in all this. Let alone thousands of disillusioned fans that feel cheated of excellence in the game they love, and pay over and over again to watch and support.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Good game for an Aussie derby I thought. Force would have to have the most underated set piece in the comp. Glad to see the Rebels hang on though. Good effort for a 5 day turn around.
 

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Proves once more - if it was ever needed - that a good scrum capability is a necessary but by no means sufficient attribute of constructing a consistently winning S15 team. In fact, the Reds won in 2011 with what I'd term a 'just good enough' scrum, way below best in class but their individual forwards played vital roles in other aspects of the Reds' attacking game.

Agree, good set piece will help but often a team can get away with it being below par or on average. Personally, I find the team that wins the battle of the breakdown is often the winner.

But the Force had Pocock doing a mountain of work in that area & did well at the breakdown. So, does that leave it to the Rebels backline? "battle of the backline"? Sounds wrong, very wrong. There has to be another explanation.
 

Tordah

Dave Cowper (27)
Good game for an Aussie derby I thought. Force would have to have the most underated set piece in the comp. Glad to see the Rebels hang on though. Good effort for a 5 day turn around.

it was a very good game, but I don't think anyone underrates the Force's set piece, it's just they can't do a lot with all the good ball they get ;)
 
N

Newter

Guest
Moons, do you not think that the entire Force backline needs reconstructing?

IMO, over recent times, your backline has been neither well recruited, selected or, in a specialist sense, coached and mentored.

A true reconstruction of it, and the Force could genuinely lift, progress and secure the full potential of its impressive forwards.

That there has been no comprehensive reconstruction, and thus no true improvement, is the grey wall of tears into which today's tinkered-with, but not transformed, team collides in relative failure, nearly every week now.

The backline is malfunctioning is it? They scored 4 tries in this game so you must be a hard man to please.
 
W

Waylon

Guest
Moono, I sense and empathise with your pain and frustration, you come across as a great fan of your team and good on you. Believe me, in the 2007-2009 period I was aghast at the Reds' mediocrity and chronic failure despite the great rugby talent and local 'rugby feeder' systems in their midst. I soon identified the utter incompetence, strategic indolence, there-for-the-networking-gains-not-for-the-code's-health of most of the QRU board members of that period.

The governance and structural problem was that, although the QRU is/was in effect dependent upon the ARU's annual income support (as are all the Aus RUs), the ARU had no effective working executive model by which it would objectively measure the QRU's actual business and game performance over time and then, if manifestly inadequate, be able to intervene and enforce governance and board-level clean outs and upgrades (just as a business holding company typically would if one or more of its major divisions failed to perform and develop over time). Instead, the the then QRU bumbled along in protective delusional mode, took no honest self-corrective measures, and disaster ultimately struck in late 2009 as gate and sponsor income collapsed leading the QRU to admit it was de facto bankrupt. c.40% of Aus rugby nearly disappeared down the toilet...and it could be seen as coming for at least 2-3 years prior.

Sorry to repeat, but I honestly see a less severe, but sadly very similar, version of this same syndrome emerging wrt to Rugby WA and its Force.

What needs to urgently occur is either (a) for the ARU to reform the constitutional structure of Aus rugby (as the NRL has just admirably done and the far-better-managed AFL did years back), or (b) for it to have the testicular fortitude to simply enforce that, over time, if franchises do not comply with pre-determined medium term business performance and code developmental KPIs, then the ARU will insist on management/board changes, and/or withdraw its core financial support until such changes are made. These KPIs would likely be items such as: gradually improving annual moving average S15 w-l % ratios (tailored fairly to any one RU's age and stage and rugby market size), average S15 final ladder position improvement over say 3 year periods, local rugby participation (or similar stat) % growth rates over time, development of local grade competition depth of teams/players, number of Wallabies developed over time from State RU sources, etc, etc. I'm not being prescriptive here (as the right KPIs would need careful formulation), but you get my general idea I'm sure.

All that local RU boards seem genuinely accountable (to the rugby public and ARU) for today are: (i) are my excuses for mediocrity going over OK in the rugby media (ii) are my 'blame external factors' lines in good enough shape and (iii) am I avoiding insolvency this year? That's about it, and as long as these 3 are in vaguely positive territory, nothing whatsoever changes, nothing, even if crowds are in real decline, and non-ARU-fed income as well. There is no genuine accountability for code-enhancing prosperity, there is no commonly defined set of central KPIs than can be objectively measured, there is no clear standard for background or competency types for board positions, there is no 'punishment' of any kind for years of poor code and/or S15 w-l mediocrity and general local RU business performance. It's as though these State RUs are effectively out-of orbit-sputniks coursing their own paths through an inaccessible galaxy....whilst we fans watch on in impotent dismay.

It's the whole rugby code and its Aussie sports market share that's the sad loser in all this. Let alone thousands of disillusioned fans that feel cheated of excellence in the game they love, and pay over and over again to watch and support.
outstanding post.
There needs to be accountability for poor recruitment, poor junior development, poor coaching, losing culture.........
The force is poorly managed and coached.
 
M

Moono75

Guest
Waylon we need to catch up for a beer. Need to get a guage on where your coming from. Reds Happy I like your posts...it just takes me a long time to read them...Im a slow reader sorry. A day on I'm still gutted by losing games we should be winning. Based on our form watch out Reds we will probably do you by 20 points next week. Highlanders thought you would have done the Brumbies easy.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
This Friday Brisbane Broncos v St George Illawarra Dragons at Suncorp Stadium, 7:30pm and
Melbourne Storm v Newcastle Knights at AAMI Park, 7:30pm (local)

http://www.nrl.com/News/OfficialTeamLists/tabid/10998/Default.aspx

Thank you for sharing that with us, nicobinho, and particularly for posting it in this thread. Obviously you must feel that at least one of our members will be interested in the information. Presumably this also means that their competition has already started.
.
 
D

daz

Guest
Thank you for sharing that with us, nicobinho, and particularly for posting it in this thread. Obviously you must feel that at least one of our members will be interested in the information. Presumably this also means that their competition has already started.
.

Thought I might start the process of elimination so we can find our fellow members who might be interested ASAP.

I'm out.
 

vidiot

John Solomon (38)
Thought I might start the process of elimination so we can find our fellow members who might be interested ASAP.

I'm out.

I for one appreciate the update on the broncos. Now I won't inadvertently wander across the tracks, geographically and culturally, into the suncorp environs tomorrow night.

(Cue last years youtube video of elegant league fan availing herself of al fresco 'facilities').
 
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