Rebels v Brumbies Super Rugby 2015 Rnd 3

[Tomikin]

While it's always a privilage to watch the magical Brumbies playing magical rugby, I suspect they'll be thanking the deity of their choice tonight for their fortune in drawing Steve Walsh.

Brumbies defence was too good tonight for the Rebels who need to do something about their midfield. Lineout a farce, again, and maul defence ragged at best.

The ref didn't lose you the game. How bout the pressure from the defence, then the ability to turn attacking chances into points. The Scrum was even, we dominated the lineout. It wasn't pretty but till the last play of the game we never looked like losing.

 

[Quick Hands]

As a neutral, I quite enjoyed the match. Rebels could have snatched at the end but I think that the Brumbies probably deserved to win and the margin was about right. Having said that, there was some very very strange refereeing. If Veldsmen et al had have served up a perfomance like that this thread would now be in meltdown. I mean being a metre from an incident, immediately (and deciseivly) awarding a try from a fairly obvious knock- on? They got it right in the end, but might he not have checked first?

 

[TOCC]

I thought he should have used TMO a few times to check some of those passes


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[Quick Hands]

I thought the TK pass was definitely forward from the hands.

 

[fatprop]

I thought the Brumbies were pretty lucky to get away with that match

 

[daz]

I try to have both eyes open at the rugby, and I think I am pretty successful at that.

Two things from this game: The Rebels are their own worst enemy and let themselves and us down with such schoolboy errors, and the 3 officials last night had a collective shocker. As bad as I have ever seen. Bad enough to want Angus Gardner back.

That is all.

 

[TOCC]

Rebels hookers need to work on throwing straight, those crooked throws really hurt the Rebels momentum


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[Merrow]

Two things from this game: The Rebels are their own worst enemy and let themselves and us down with such schoolboy errors, and the 3 officials last night had a collective shocker. As bad as I have ever seen. Bad enough to want Angus Gardner back.

That is all.

Nothing is so bad that could possibly justify wanting Angus Gardner to referee.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Only caught the second half. The AloEmile Sio scrum battle was great. Both teams scrummaged really well. I think the brumbies driving maul from a line out is illegal 90% of the time, but so are other teams and it's something either the SANZAR or World Rugby ref committees need to get on top of. I think it ruins the game when you have set pieces that are basically unable to be defended because they're set up illegally.
Stirz, Debrczini, Harris all pretty good, Timani's was quieter than previous but still had good contributions, back row all mucked in. For the brums, good scrum battle, Arnold had a good game, backs pretty sharp in tough conditions. I thought it was a good game despite the mistakes.



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[Braveheart81]

I thought that was Debreczeni's best Super Rugby game. Controlled the game reasonably well and provided plenty of threat in attack. His improvement is really pleasing.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Decision Making.

Confused why Higgers decided to take a quick tap at the 82 minute mark. They were 15 metres out, and the Ponies were a man down in the scrum (or could Carter have returned from the naughty boys chair if they opted for a set piece restart? IMHO a penalty break is not an option to bring a sub on, or for a naughty child to return from the bench).

A scrum would have fixed all the Ponies Fatties in one place and create spaces for the Rebels backs to exploit, and/or it would potentially lead to another PF/FK/Scrum option closer to the line or even a P Try.

The quick tap move when executed looked lame and ad hoc, and was unleashed on a reasonably prepared Ponies defence line. Perhaps they need to practice these some more.

 

[TOCC]

Nah scrums were too much of a lottery up until that point


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[Dumbledore]

The ref didn't lose you the game. How bout the pressure from the defence, then the ability to turn attacking chances into points. The Scrum was even, we dominated the lineout. It wasn't pretty but till the last play of the game we never looked like losing.

I never said he did. First sentence, second paragraph, 'Brumbies defence was too good tonight.'

That doesn't mean the refereeing performance was acceptable and shouldn't be talked about. I think there's a big problem with confirmation bias at the moment. The referee goes into the game with a preconceived idea about who the better team is and subconciously the whistling reflects that. The perfect example is the umm flat pass to Kuridrani for his try. All Walsh sees is the superstar Brumbies executing a great backline move at pace, no interest in going to have a look upstairs, because he expects players of that calibre to make that play. To an extent it's a question of making your own luck. The Rebels are going to keep being on the end of things like this until they can consistently show referees they belong at the top end of the table.

And they're not going to be there for a while. Lots of problems. The lineout is a complete shambles. Debreczeni was better but there's absolutely no zip in the backline, the ball just isn't getting through the centres. English had, disallowed try aside, another invisible effort. Goalkicking aside I don't think Mikey Mike is adding a whole lot at the moment. Team discipline is still a huge issue. They might think they're getting harshly treated, but they just have to adapt to what the ref is blowing - whether it's fair or not. Maul defence is wildly shaky as well, and that's going to get exposed by the Force and the other Saffa teams.

 

[Quick Hands]

Decision Making.

Confused why Higgers decided to take a quick tap at the 82 minute mark. They were 15 metres out, and the Ponies were a man down in the scrum (or could Carter have returned from the naughty boys chair if they opted for a set piece restart? IMHO a penalty break is not an option to bring a sub on, or for a naughty child to return from the bench).

A scrum would have fixed all the Ponies Fatties in one place and create spaces for the Rebels backs to exploit, and/or it would potentially lead to another PF/FK/Scrum option closer to the line or even a P Try.

The quick tap move when executed looked lame and ad hoc, and was unleashed on a reasonably prepared Ponies defence line. Perhaps they need to practice these some more.

Can they take the scrum option if the penalty has been awarded after time has expired?

On the 2nd last penalty (which was also after time had expired) the commentators indicated that both the scrum and lineout options weren't available.

The law isn't particularly clear either:

If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.
http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?law=5

 

[AFL_Converted]

[quote="Dumbledore, post: 716583,

That doesn't mean the refereeing performance was acceptable and shouldn't be talked about. I think there's a big problem with confirmation bias at the moment. The referee goes into the game with a preconceived idea about who the better team is and subconciously the whistling reflects that. The perfect example is the umm flat pass to Kuridrani for his try. All Walsh sees is the superstar Brumbies executing a great backline move at pace, no interest in going to have a look upstairs, because he expects players of that calibre to make that play. To an extent it's a question of making your own luck. The Rebels are going to keep being on the end of things like this until they can consistently show referees they belong at the top end of the table.[/quote]

I think this is spot on and Steve Walsh is a perfect example of it. He always favours the higher reputation. Brumbies always get the favour over the Force and Rebels. Queensland over Brumbies and NSW above all. Not sure who he favours between force and Rebels. Perhaps that would perplex him anough to put in an even performance.

As for last night, it looked to me when the brumbies had the ball something was going to happen. When we had it it took a lot to generate something, but generally we did go forward. That is encouraging and if they can continue to improve we should have our best season, but not finals. If we were genuine finals contenders we would have taken that last night.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

My take on it is that the ball is not dead when the PK is awarded.

If a scrum option is nominated instead of a kick, then the scrum must be completed before no game can be called by the referee. A scrum reset will not wind down the clock and cause the ref to blow no game, because the scrum must be completed.

The Ball goes dead when kicked into touch for a lineout to take place, so the ref could blow no game when that happens regardless of the circumstances leading to the ball going dead.

No substitutions can be made unless the ball is dead. 10.5a A temporary suspension is for 10 minutes of playing time. Playing time ends when the ball is dead. Ball is not dead at a PK therefore naughty boys can't return to the field if their 10 minutes temporary suspension is up if a PK is awarded.

Law 2.4(a) Scrum alternative. A team awarded a penalty or free kick may choose a scrum instead. They throw in the ball.

Law 5.7 (part) If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed.

I think it is as clear as mud.

 

[daz]

Thought of the day: Why on earth wasn't Higgers questioning the ref more, especially after some of the more baffling decisions. It seemed he decided to not stand up for his team.

According to the section I sit in, general consensus is that it may be a coaching call to not challenge the ref to avoid being seen as a whinger and attract more attention, i.e the Horwill factor.

Fair call, or am I just reading something out of nothing?

 

[Slim 293]

The perfect example is the umm flat pass to Kuridrani for his try. All Walsh sees is the superstar Brumbies executing a great backline move at pace, no interest in going to have a look upstairs, because he expects players of that calibre to make that play. To an extent it's a question of making your own luck.

It's unlikely the TMO would've changed the outcome...........

On replay it couldn't have been determined that the pass went forward, and going by similar judgements (including one in the Bulls v Sharks game) the try would've been allowed..............

 

[Slim 293]

I think this is spot on and Steve Walsh is a perfect example of it. He always favours the higher reputation. Brumbies always get the favour over the Force and Rebels. Queensland over Brumbies and NSW above all. Not sure who he favours between force and Rebels. Perhaps that would perplex him anough to put in an even performance.

I've been a rabid critic of Walsh for a long time, but that's just tinfoil stuff.............

 

[Quick Hands]

My take on it is that the ball is not dead when the PK is awarded.

If a scrum option is nominated instead of a kick, then the scrum must be completed before no game can be called by the referee. A scrum reset will not wind down the clock and cause the ref to blow no game, because the scrum must be completed.

The Ball goes dead when kicked into touch for a lineout to take place, so the ref could blow no game when that happens regardless of the circumstances leading to the ball going dead.

No substitutions can be made unless the ball is dead. 10.5a A temporary suspension is for 10 minutes of playing time. Playing time ends when the ball is dead. Ball is not dead at a PK therefore naughty boys can't return to the field if their 10 minutes temporary suspension is up if a PK is awarded.

Law 2.4(a) Scrum alternative. A team awarded a penalty or free kick may choose a scrum instead. They throw in the ball.

Law 5.7 (part) If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed.

I think it is as clear as mud.

Agree.

It all depends on how this ambiguous phrase is read:
The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout