Rebels 2020

[qwerty51]

And I think it's a cop out to blame all the French rugby problems on their foreign players. There's still a shitload of French players in all positions. I mean they have 30 professional teams.

It's more to do with the win-at-all-costs style of rugby they play in the Top 14. Even international coaches (like Rennie) have said the Top 14 style of play and training is not conducive to Test rugby.

I don't think that would be relevant to our domestic comp. Entertainment would be still king for our clubs.

 

[Derpus]

Hey I support your thrust, but as a note the bold bit has actually negatively impacted the national game, certainly of England.

I don't think this is true. Spain and Germany both had teams rife with foreign talent and they still won the World Cup. If their players are good enough, they are good enough. England just don't produce the same talent and i really doubt that has anything to do with their top tier professional competition. It's about what lies underneath.

Edit: and ironically they are now more succesful with a less talented team than their 'golden era' where players like Lampard, Gerard, Rooney, Ferdinand etc achieved F all.

 

[oztimmay]

Closing the loop on the whole Hoiles thing, Baden gives his best diplomatic middle-finger resposne. From SMH, via Stuff..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ounders?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Meanwhile, the Melbourne Rebels have rejected a claim from former Wallaby Stephen Hoiles that the club does not deserve to be in a trans-Tasman Super Rugby.

Rebels boss Baden Stephenson told the Sydney Morning Herald that Hoiles was "entitled to his view''.

"I’m not concerned by what others have got to say or their opinions,” Stephenson said. “I’m just really confident with how things are tracking, and we’re working closely with RA. I know internally a lot of the good things that we’re doing as a club and how we’re positioning ourselves. Our future is pretty bright.

“We’ve been the second-best performed team in 2018 and 2019, we’ve got stability across our leadership and the highest growth rate in participation numbers … and some private investment, government support, long-term partnerships.

“Do we want to be more consistent on the field with results? Absolutely. From where the club was and where it is now, I think we’re tracking in the right direction. I’m not too concerned about what others are saying.

 

[Rebels3]

Closing the loop on the whole Hoiles thing, Baden gives his best diplomatic middle-finger resposne. From SMH, via Stuff..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ounders?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

i like this approach. There is no need to be nasty about it but the club also needs to be more proactive than the last time they were under attack. They lost the PR battle last time with certain things that were justifiably and deservedly thrown at the club but equally lots of misinformation and bent truths that eventually stuck and have remained apart of the rhetoric surrounding the club.

 

[oztimmay]

And a little more from Tom Decent on the matter. Little more context on the matter, but the same polite diplomatic middle finger:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...e-getting-chop-next-year-20200720-p55dr0.html

 

[Rebel man]

Yes and probably had a deleterious effect on French rugby, till recently. I just think that there are two competing narratives and that in order to have a successful professional comp we need to have product that is marketable. The corollary is that the Wallabbies should be able to select anyone who is eligible, wherever they play.

I don’t agree

I think there are two main goals for the Rebels the first is to win and build a successful club on and off the park in Melbourne helping to grow the game and the secondary goal is to produce Wallaby’s.

There is no reason these goals are mutually exclusive. If we did have the budget to buy overseas players to create a winning team we raise the profile of rugby in Melbourne and help engage more people with the sport. We could do this while still having an eye on development and putting money into the talent pathways in Melbourne with the long term goal to keep the club successful relying predominantly on local talent and just recruiting to fill specific needs in the squad

 

[stoff]

I don’t agree

I think there are two main goals for the Rebels the first is to win and build a successful club on and off the park in Melbourne helping to grow the game and the secondary goal is to produce Wallaby’s.

There is no reason these goals are mutually exclusive. If we did have the budget to buy overseas players to create a winning team we raise the profile of rugby in Melbourne and help engage more people with the sport. We could do this while still having an eye on development and putting money into the talent pathways in Melbourne with the long term goal to keep the club successful relying predominantly on local talent and just recruiting to fill specific needs in the squad

I like that thought. The goal should be to produce Victorian Wallabies. Ten years in we are seeing the pathways produce more and more talent and now we are retaining the talent here instead of them heading north for the last few years of their schooling and then ending up at another franchise. With some notable exceptions like Reece Hodge, once the interstate guys get to Wallaby level, they head back to NSW or QLD and play there or head overseas for a big payday. The more players we produce who have their roots back in Melbourne, the more we will retain, or attract back over time.

 

[Rebel man]

I like that thought. The goal should be to produce Victorian Wallabies. Ten years in we are seeing the pathways produce more and more talent and now we are retaining the talent here instead of them heading north for the last few years of their schooling and then ending up at another franchise. With some notable exceptions like Reece Hodge, once the interstate guys get to Wallaby level, they head back to NSW or QLD and play there or head overseas for a big payday. The more players we produce who have their roots back in Melbourne, the more we will retain, or attract back over time.

Exactly half our forward pack is Victorian and that’s a massive win.

You look at the club landscape in Melbourne how do we grow junior participation? By having a program that turns out professional players. The Storm have managed to grow the footprint of League in Melbourne as a participation sport but still no Vics are making the grade in the NRL. If the Rebels can further improve the talent pathways they have been developing in Victoria I think you will see more players play junior rugby over league as they see it can take them somewhere

 

[Wilson]

Exactly half our forward pack is Victorian and that’s a massive win.

You look at the club landscape in Melbourne how do we grow junior participation? By having a program that turns out professional players. The Storm have managed to grow the footprint of League in Melbourne as a participation sport but still no Vics are making the grade in the NRL. If the Rebels can further improve the talent pathways they have been developing in Victoria I think you will see more players play junior rugby over league as they see it can take them somewhere

I'd really like to see RA operating talent 'combine' style things, particularly out of Melbourne. There's benefit to it for all the states, but a national combine designed at picking up 18-25 year old athletes from outside of rugby would have huge potential down there. Our whole "All shapes and sizes" ethic makes it ideal for us.

For example if you look at the profile of a modern lock vs. an AFL ruck man it's very close, with a higher fitness component for the ruck man vs the lock. I'd have to imagine there are a few ruck men running around the VFL that are never going to cut it at AFL level in the position but have all the tools to be handy super rugby locks.

Once you open those crossover pathways up you can really see the pay off as other guys realize they might have other options open to them if they want to be a professional athlete and start to consider rugby.

 

[KevinO]

I'd really like to see RA operating talent 'combine' style things, particularly out of Melbourne. There's benefit to it for all the states, but a national combine designed at picking up 18-25 year old athletes from outside of rugby would have huge potential down there. Our whole "All shapes and sizes" ethic makes it ideal for us.

For example if you look at the profile of a modern lock vs. an AFL ruck man it's very close, with a higher fitness component for the ruck man vs the lock. I'd have to imagine there are a few ruck men running around the VFL that are never going to cut it at AFL level in the position but have all the tools to be handy super rugby locks.

Once you open those crossover pathways up you can really see the pay off as other guys realize they might have other options open to them if they want to be a professional athlete and start to consider rugby.

Absolutely,

I know of a good rugby player who trialed for the Western Jets Football side. Did he play football? Not at all but they saw he was a really good athlete and tried to poach him. Why can't we do the same to those who are good athletes but the wrong build for AFL. So many guys playing local footy down here who go through the systems and would make great back rows and centers cause they are the wrong mold of the modern day AFL player.

 

[Rebels3]

Absolutely,

I know of a good rugby player who trialed for the Western Jets Football side. Did he play football? Not at all but they saw he was a really good athlete and tried to poach him. Why can't we do the same to those who are good athletes but the wrong build for AFL. So many guys playing local footy down here who go through the systems and would make great back rows and centers cause they are the wrong mold of the modern day AFL player.

Altona Roosters have had a few NRL players come through their ranks. Charnze Nicol-Klocksted, Jeremy Smith and Gareth Widdop of most mention.

 

[Rebel man]

Absolutely,

I know of a good rugby player who trialed for the Western Jets Football side. Did he play football? Not at all but they saw he was a really good athlete and tried to poach him. Why can't we do the same to those who are good athletes but the wrong build for AFL. So many guys playing local footy down here who go through the systems and would make great back rows and centers cause they are the wrong mold of the modern day AFL player.

Like Jarrod Witts Gold Coast ruckman was a junior state lock for NSW but came to Collingwood under the old NSW scholarship program and has gone on to become one of the premier ruckman in the game. Rowan Marshall one of the best young ruckman in the game only played footy because rugby was unavailable where he lived

 

[Dctarget]

Yeah it’s criminal the talent that’s wasted playing VFL. Gus Borthwick for instance, even from a rugby family, played AFL because of school. Could’ve been our Faf de Klerk, same mould, incredible skills, if he was a foot taller he would’ve been an AFL great. But he’s short so he’s stuck in VFL.

 

[Rebels3]

Tom Jeffries (brother Sam played for Rebels) is probably the most obvious one, played for Nudgee in QLD then identified by North Melbourne to go down and develop as a ruckman. Absolutely no idea where he is these days.

 

[Rebels3]

Just found this from an article on AFL delistings from last year,

After spending time on North Melbourne’s list as a rookie, Tom Jeffries has returned to rugby. In late October, Jeffries, the younger brother of current Melbourne Rebels lock Sam Jeffries, was named in the junior Wallabies training squad.
Jeffries isn’t the only one dabbling in rugby, with delisted Hawk Kurt Heatherley recently completing a two-week trial with the Rebels in attempt to win a development squad contract. However foxfooty.com.au understands Heatherley is no longer training with the club, yet is still eyeing a career in rugby.
Prior to training with the Rebels, Heatherley had been training with VFL club Frankston.

 

[Rebel man]

Altona Roosters have had a few NRL players come through their ranks. Charnze Nicol-Klocksted, Jeremy Smith and Gareth Widdop of most mention.

I was aware of Widdop but not the other two. To be fair Widdop is a Pom but didn’t he play his first game in Vic at 17?

 

[Rebel man]

Yeah it’s criminal the talent that’s wasted playing VFL. Gus Borthwick for instance, even from a rugby family, played AFL because of school. Could’ve been our Faf de Klerk, same mould, incredible skills, if he was a foot taller he would’ve been an AFL great. But he’s short so he’s stuck in VFL.

Yeah watched him play for Collingwood. Had an amazing debut season as a 18 year old in the VFL

 

[Rebels3]

I was aware of Widdop but not the other two. To be fair Widdop is a Pom but didn’t he play his first game in Vic at 17?

2004 an article on his background says. Born in 1989 so would of been 15/16

 

[Rebel man]

Tom Jeffries (brother Sam played for Rebels) is probably the most obvious one, played for Nudgee in QLD then identified by North Melbourne to go down and develop as a ruckman. Absolutely no idea where he is these days.

Jordan DeGoey played fly half at St Kevin’s before dropping rugby to play his under 18 year at the Oakleigh Chargers

 

[Rebel man]

Apeness was another was in the Rebels development program then went to footy and got drafted to Freo and then never made it