Rebels 2018

[The Honey Badger]

All sevens representation locks a player in as well, although there is a loophole with this in collaboration with olympic rules.

So situation with Jarrad Hayne running off the bench for 5 minutes for Fiji, locked him to Fiji for Rugby or not?

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[Highlander35]

Everybody, as of last year, U20s sides can no longer be used as the 2nd nominated XV a side team for any nation.

Having the 2nd XV count is still thinking a little amateur for mine: I'd much prefer a system more like football, where taking a cap for U20s or above doesn't render you ineligible for other nations you could already represent, it just denies you opportunities to gain a new nation through residency.

 

[oztimmay]

Stiles onboard as part time scrum & lineout coach for the rebels.

Good to see him back in a job (I think the HC coach was too big a step for someone who hasn't come from a winning culture) but not glad his first test will be against us..

Let's play trade -a-coach with the Regds; we give you TT, we get Stiles. I think I know who I'd prefer. Guess we're done stealing all the QLD players anyway...

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Let's play trade -a-coach with the Regds; we give you TT, we get Stiles. I think I know who I'd prefer. Guess we're done stealing all the QLD players anyway.

Hey, the one good thing QLD had last year was their scrum, so. Yeah.

 

[Rebels3]

So situation with Jarrad Hayne running off the bench for 5 minutes for Fiji, locked him to Fiji for Rugby or not?

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Technically yes he is committed to Fiji as he played that comical 5mins. However there is a loophole that can be exploited that surrounds the olympic residency qualifying standards as World Rugby's standards come into slight conflict with these. Which means a player could technically adhere to these standards and be eligible for another country if they play in olympic or olympic qualifying tournaments. Tim Nani-Williams, Cooper Vuna, etc have all managed to represent 2 different nations through this. A contingent of capped All Blacks are reportedly weighing up the same situation to make themselves eligible for Samoa at the next World Cup.

 

[hammertimethere]

Coleman (c) today

Great decision

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Happy with Coleman as Captain:

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/02/05/adam-coleman-rebels-captain-2018

Engo as deputy, good move!

 

[upthereds#!]

Would English as VC be more indicative of a Club style Vice Captain (as the Melbourne Rep essentially)? Originally I didn't think he would make the top 23, however with this, it is hard to think he wouldn't at least get the no.23 jersey with his versatility. Additionally with the versatility of Hodge and to a lesser extent Maddocks, the below would make the most sense to me (at full strength)

9. Genia 10. Adams 11. Koroibete 12/13. Hodge/Meakes 14. Naivalu 15. DHP

21. Ruru 22. Maddocks 23. English

 

[Tex]

Technically yes he is committed to Fiji as he played that comical 5mins. However there is a loophole that can be exploited that surrounds the olympic residency qualifying standards as World Rugby's standards come into slight conflict with these. Which means a player could technically adhere to these standards and be eligible for another country if they play in olympic or olympic qualifying tournaments. Tim Nani-Williams, Cooper Vuna, etc have all managed to represent 2 different nations through this. A contingent of capped All Blacks are reportedly weighing up the same situation to make themselves eligible for Samoa at the next World Cup.

I didn't follow the League WC closely but didn't they relax the eligibility criteria for the tournament and allowed blokes who didn't get selected for NZ or Australia to play for other nations? On one hand it kind of entrenches the view that playing for a pacific islands team is inherently of less value (call a spade a spade, it kind of is...), but on the other it might be a really useful way of both keeping good players in the region, and providing the PI teams with access to talent they might have otherwise forgone.

 

[upthereds#!]

Technically yes he is committed to Fiji as he played that comical 5mins. However there is a loophole that can be exploited that surrounds the olympic residency qualifying standards as World Rugby's standards come into slight conflict with these. Which means a player could technically adhere to these standards and be eligible for another country if they play in olympic or olympic qualifying tournaments. Tim Nani-Williams, Cooper Vuna, etc have all managed to represent 2 different nations through this. A contingent of capped All Blacks are reportedly weighing up the same situation to make themselves eligible for Samoa at the next World Cup.

I believe that if it takes 3 (now 5) years to become eligible to play for a Nation - that same time period should be allowed to lapse before they can represent a new Nation (as opposed to using the Olympic loophole utilised through 7s) example If Player A plays for NZ, after 5 years of non selection he is eligible once again to play for another country. If he is 'naturally' eligible by birth (Grandmother is Samoan) he is immediately able to play for Samoa. If it is France he wants to play for, he would then need to complete the required residency period (additional 5 years). Charles Piutau played for NZ in 2015. He would be eligible to play for Tonga in 2020 (age 29) He would be eligible to play for England in 2025 (34) This means players capped at a young aged but never again picked (like Naiyaravoro) are not forever barred from representing another country. However this is far more advantageous to their home nations (like Fiji0 who could regain access to these players after 5 years, whereas it would rarely if at all benefit tier 1 nations eg France, as they would have to wait 10.

 

[Highlander35]

I didn't follow the League WC closely but didn't they relax the eligibility criteria for the tournament and allowed blokes who didn't get selected for NZ or Australia to play for other nations? On one hand it kind of entrenches the view that playing for a pacific islands team is inherently of less value (call a spade a spade, it kind of is.), but on the other it might be a really useful way of both keeping good players in the region, and providing the PI teams with access to talent they might have otherwise forgone.

Rugby League have weird rules, that let players jump back and forth around world cups to maximize pay. As I've said before though, I think that if you restrict it to once in your career, it can't be to a nation that you did residency in after your first cap, and ensure it has a stand down period of 24-36 months, I've got no problems with players changing which country they represent, which would provide a nice compromise between strengthening some nations, prevent poaching established internationals, and not making it a joke.

 

[Rebels3]

Perfect world for me would be the scrapping of the Grand Parent rule. I don't mind players changing nations however it'd have to be the 5 year residency rule, plus once you have played more than 5/10 caps for one country you cannot change. My thoughts on International rugby is that it's a privilege and shouldn't be treated to maximise financial gains, you should play where your heart or allegiance is. Maximising financial gains is what club rugby is for.

 

[Highlander35]

I think grandparent rule scrapped would work fine now: I think the biggest issue with scrapping it would be 15ish years from now where they would be a lot of 2nd generation Islanders in Aus and NZ unable to represent their ethnic/cultural home nation.

 

[Hawko]

Coming back to the Rebels thread, (the above posts should really reside elsewhere) it seems to me that most coaches are using the first trial and the 10's to look at individual players on the fringe of the squads. In doing so there is no real team cohesion and making judgments about teams' likely performance is total guesswork.

So, perhaps a better question to ask is: Who played really well in their position in the game? (Not who was really flashy, who did their job really well?) This would seem to be a more profitable line of enquiry.

 

[Tex]

Coming back to the Rebels thread, (the above posts should really reside elsewhere) it seems to me that most coaches are using the first trial and the 10's to look at individual players on the fringe of the squads. In doing so there is no real team cohesion and making judgments about teams' likely performance is total guesswork.

So, perhaps a better question to ask is: Who played really well in their position in the game? (Not who was really flashy, who did their job really well?) This would seem to be a more profitable line of enquiry.

Yep fair call. The rugby.com.au interview with Coleman reported him being pretty relaxed about the scoreline. Sounds like the types of teething issues you'd expect - new combinations, mix of inexperienced players and a whole playbook of new systems and structures to learn.

 

[dillyboy]

Let's play trade -a-coach with the Regds; we give you TT, we get Stiles. I think I know who I'd prefer. Guess we're done stealing all the QLD players anyway.

You never know, we'll probably see Quade become a Mexican at some point

 

[Zero_Cool]

Happy with Coleman as Captain:

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/02/05/adam-coleman-rebels-captain-2018

Engo as deputy, good move!

Yeah I disagree, I felt like Genia would have been the ideal Captain candidate from nether the old Rebels nor old Force, highly regarded even in the Wallabies (IIRC he was VC). I don't hate the selection of Coleman, but I feel like he is more an emotional leader rather than a tactical or strategic leader. I don't dislike Coleman as Capitan but I feel like they have missed an opportunity. If I was a former Melbourne player who is on the cusp but gets left out this could be a catalyst for feeling like there is a bias against the Rebel players.

 

[amirite]

Coleman doesn't need to be tactical, he isn't inventing things on the fly. He's executing coaches orders (anyone that thinks players decide to 'go for the corner' on personal whims is wrong).

Coleman is a well respected, talented player with excellent training ethic and an untarnished reputation. He also could be (touch wood) with the Rebels for the next 5 years with luck (though in the modern game this probably isn't likely though).

He's a pretty decent choice for mine.

 

[amirite]

Is he eligible to play for Australia? Has playing for Samoa U20 made him ineligible? </p>
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As another poster said, not for most U20s team. I don't think any Island teams would make their 20s their A team, they're happy to have the bottom age Aussies and Kiwis who just miss out boost the quality of their sides, and it means they're engaged in their system incase they end up uncapped in France at 24 and are willing to play some test footy.

..contract.

Not many people who consider a 'training' contract a Super rugby contract. It essentially pays expenses while you miss work.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Coleman doesn't need to be tactical, he isn't inventing things on the fly. He's executing coaches orders (anyone that thinks players decide to 'go for the corner' on personal whims is wrong).

Coleman is a well respected, talented player with excellent training ethic and an untarnished reputation. He also could be (touch wood) with the Rebels for the next 5 years with luck (though in the modern game this probably isn't likely though).

He's a pretty decent choice for mine.

I'm not saying he's a bad choice I would have short-listed Coleman for the Wallabies Capitan. Just Genia may have been a better choice given the circumstances.

He is going to need to make tactical decisions about when to kick for touch or take the 3, when to pack down the scrum. He's always going to be making tactical decisions, that's pretty much the job of the capitan.


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