Rebels 2018

[GoMelbRebels]

How do you know they don’t have a plan? Have you asked them?

 

[BLR]

How do you know they don’t have a plan? Have you asked them?

I would love to ask them but apparently everything is commercially confidential when good ol boys ARU & VRU are concerned. All we can do is look at past performance. ARU's method of ignoring that worked real well when they sold the Rebels to Cox right? At what point were the Rebels to be profitable according to the ARU's calculations when selling to Cox? Where is the indication anything is changing? The board is more or less the same as the pre-Cox disaster right? Why the hell would we assume anything would be different? Taking Force players and putting a bit of cash into a playing field isn't going to stem the bleeding if the same people are in power. Hell, if the fans don't take up the dirt cheap season tickets in droves what then? As a Force fan I have dealt with bullshit after bullshit with a new coach or player coming in, saying the right words and as soon as the first game rolls around you realise it is the same shit, we had to change things dramatically, finally with ARU help, to turn things around this year. That's what the Rebels need to do as well but do you honestly believe that has occurred? It needs to be systematic change throughout the organisation not just taking our coaches and players and trying to replicate what we did in WA.

 

[Moono75]

How do you know they don’t have a plan? Have you asked them?

They have a plan. They are copying the Forces community engagement model......probably got a heads up from the Forces Alliance Agreement.

 

[lou75]

Oh I forgot, they've got Rob Clarke advising Baden - what could possibly go wrong with that scenario?

 

[stoff]

They have a plan. They are copying the Forces community engagement model..probably got a heads up from the Forces Alliance Agreement.

Given how highly you all rate that model out west, I assume you see that as a good thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lou75]

Although with rob Clarke memory loss problems things could get messy - he told Wayne smith in June 2015 that he had known Andrew Cox for a long time but when fronting the senate he couldn't state when he met Andrew Cox - he couldn't even remember the meeting arranged the morning of the season opening that he flew down to Melbourne early for !!

 

[TOCC]

How do you know they don’t have a plan? Have you asked them?

How do I know? Well they’ve racked up multi-$million losses in consecutive seasons. We’ve been here before, Harold Mitchell gifted the Rebels to the VRU when he pulled out, and they eventually had to turn to ARU for financial assistance. What I want to know, is how will this time will be different? The partnership with the Vic Govt spoke little of tangible revenue for the Rebels, ARU have sold some of the Wallaby test matches, but where’s the money for the Rebels?

 

[GoMelbRebels]

How do I know? Well they’ve racked up multi-$million losses in consecutive seasons. We’ve been here before, Harold Mitchell gifted the Rebels to the VRU when he pulled out, and they eventually had to turn to ARU for financial assistance. What I want to know, is how will this time will be different? The partnership with the Vic Govt spoke little of tangible revenue for the Rebels, ARU have sold some of the Wallaby test matches, but where’s the money for the Rebels?

What I actually don’t get is how the Rebels bled so much more than the Force? Seriously, what do they spend their money on? Did they overspend on Vic the Rebel’s suit?

 

[TOCC]

What I actually don’t get is how the Rebels bled so much more than the Force? Seriously, what do they spend their money on? Did they overspend on Vic the Rebel’s suit?

Is it overspending or lack of income, Rebels haven’t had a major sponsor since 2015. If that is anything to go by then there is a lack of demand for the sponsorship of the Rebels.

 

[lou75]

What I actually don’t get is how the Rebels bled so much more than the Force? Seriously, what do they spend their money on? Did they overspend on Vic the Rebel’s suit?

According to Senator Reynolds, the Cox owned Melbourne Rebels paid consultants and management fees hundreds of thousands of dollars, so that would account for a large part of the loss as well

 

[Boof1050]

Apparently spent more on consultancy and management fees than they did on the playing group. Also 1 or 2 of the directors have been mentioned as being trustees of some of the trust accounts that was involved with Imperium group. Have a feeling that the noose is starting to tighten around the necks of some people involved. And with Twiggy ball making progress I think some of you guys doubting your team should be asking some serious questions before you become extinct.

 

[lou75]

Apparently spent more on consultancy and management fees than they did on the playing group. Also 1 or 2 of the directors have been mentioned as being trustees of some of the trust accounts that was involved with Imperium group. Have a feeling that the noose is starting to tighten around the necks of some people involved. And with Twiggy ball making progress I think some of you guys doubting your team should be asking some serious questions before you become extinct.

Beach Boxes are very expensive and Andrew Cox broke the record when he bought his for $615,000 in November 2015

 

[amirite]

I haven't been involved in these chats for a while, but for mine there's two main reasons the Rebels exist and the Force don't.

1. The Rebels license wasn't ARU owned, so there was no mechanism to get rid of them.
2. The Force games don't rate very well on television. Of the two options, the television partners would've rathered the Force get shut down.

As far as anyone noting the Rebels cheque books being badly managed, sure it sounds it was. But, looking forward with the complete ownership change for the Rebels, and for the Force if they stayed around with their community model, I just don't see how that's a key factor. Things would have been different.

As far as anyone discussing the quality of local rugby communities, playing numbers are extremely similar and of all junior rugby tournaments for the last 4 years, how many have the Force finished higher than the Rebels? Including U15 JGC, U17JGC, U16 Champs, U18 Champs, and Super 20s, the Force have finished higher in 3-4 tournaments of around 15. I think this is a pretty good indicator (or at least the best one we have) of who will be producing more professionals and more Wallabies in 4 years time.

I just think this idea that the Rebels were the obvious choice for the cut is incorrect. It's sad both teams aren't still around, but to direct your ire at the Rebels is just stupid.

Direct your anger at circumstances of the rugby marketplace, Rugby Australia, or both. Not the Rebels.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I respect your views Amirite, but I remain fearful that the Rebels will continue to bleed the coffers of the ARU and that will have a detrimental impact on the whole of rugby in this country.

Time will tell, but the past doesn't give me any confidence in the franchise for the future.

 

[lou75]

I haven't been involved in these chats for a while, but for mine there's two main reasons the Rebels exist and the Force don't.

1. The Rebels license wasn't ARU owned, so there was no mechanism to get rid of them.
2. The Force games don't rate very well on television. Of the two options, the television partners would've rathered the Force get shut down.

As far as anyone noting the Rebels cheque books being badly managed, sure it sounds it was. But, looking forward with the complete ownership change for the Rebels, and for the Force if they stayed around with their community model, I just don't see how that's a key factor. Things would have been different.

As far as anyone discussing the quality of local rugby communities, playing numbers are extremely similar and of all junior rugby tournaments for the last 4 years, how many have the Force finished higher than the Rebels? Including U15 JGC, U17JGC, U16 Champs, U18 Champs, and Super 20s, the Force have finished higher in 3-4 tournaments of around 15. I think this is a pretty good indicator (or at least the best one we have) of who will be producing more professionals and more Wallabies in 4 years time.

I just think this idea that the Rebels were the obvious choice for the cut is incorrect. It's sad both teams aren't still around, but to direct your ire at the Rebels is just stupid.

Direct your anger at circumstances of the rugby marketplace, Rugby Australia, or both. Not the Rebels.

that is what the ARU have said, but I have been doing some reading, and the same clause that allowed them to cut the Force in the Alliance Agreement also exists in the Super Rugby Participation agreements: " The ARU may terminate this Deed .... if any of the following occur: ... a significant Access and Broadcasting Rights Agreement is terminated or the payment of any material amount to the Joint Venture under such a Rights Agreement is reduced, suspended, altered and /or terminated such that ARU's ability to continue to run the Super Rugby Competition with NZRU, SARU and UAR is compromised...", so in effect, the ARU could have pulled any of the licenses, (legally - and we know that Clyne is big on legality), but they chose to pull the Force.

 

[lou75]

I respect your views Amirite, but I remain fearful that the Rebels will continue to bleed the coffers of the ARU and that will have a detrimental impact on the whole of rugby in this country.

Time will tell, but the past doesn't give me any confidence in the franchise for the future.

especially when the same people who were running the club then are back running the club now

 

[stoff]

that is what the ARU have said, but I have been doing some reading, and the same clause that allowed them to cut the Force in the Alliance Agreement also exists in the Super Rugby Participation agreements: " The ARU may terminate this Deed .. if any of the following occur: . a significant Access and Broadcasting Rights Agreement is terminated or the payment of any material amount to the Joint Venture under such a Rights Agreement is reduced, suspended, altered and /or terminated such that ARU's ability to continue to run the Super Rugby Competition with NZRU, SARU and UAR is compromised.", so in effect, the ARU could have pulled any of the licenses, (legally - and we know that Clyne is big on legality), but they chose to pull the Force.

What part of that did you interpret to allow axing of the Rebels licence in the circumstance we just went through? That clause is completely reliant on the ability to run the comp being compromised by the renegotiation. That is the opposite of what happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lou75]

well apparently it was the same clause that allowed them to axe the force

 

[stoff]

well apparently it was the same clause that allowed them to axe the force

No it was this clause that sunk them:

Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GoMelbRebels]

No it was this clause that sunk them:

Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The judge was very clear in his findings about this.