Rebels 2017

[Rugbynutter39]

At 23 I think Jack D is still that high potential young player, and even if he isn't we already have that youngster next year in the even younger Jack McGregor.

Yes forgot about jack McGregor - thanks for reminding me. I just wonder whether jd might be better suited to fullback and especially given lack of options there and fact in nrc he started to find some form there at fullback in nrc.

I am not writing off jd but his form at 10 has been a concern so prefer to see another player like Meehan start at 10 till jd's form warrants starting at 10 again.


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[amirite]

Yes forgot about jack McGregor - thanks for reminding me. I just wonder whether jd might be better suited to fullback and especially given lack of options there and fact in nrc he started to find some form there at fullback in nrc.

I am not writing off jd but his form at 10 has been a concern so prefer to see another player like Meehan start at 10 till jd's form warrants starting at 10 again.

Meehan played one decent game as an NRC 10, whereas JD played a whole Super season as a decent 10 in 2015. I'll add to this that after Meehan's initial outing at 10 his game was pretty error filled.

We have plenty of options at 15 - English, Maddocks, Placcid, and Shipperly when uninjured. For better or worse we have plenty of options at 15 because McGann loves utilities.

Plenty of great rugby players have had bad seasons, I don't think we can death ride JD as a 10 when our secondary options are virtually non-existent.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

I think TT definitely wanted to play JD at fullback this year with MikeyMike at 10. Obviously, Mikey kept getting himself injured but we did look good the few times that combination was tried.

The flyhalf position has been a problem since Cipriani left (I know, different kind of problems though). Since then we've had Gus Roberts, a bit of Beale here and there, a bit of JO'C, Hegarty and JD.

I really can't see us making huge steps forward till this issue is solved. Hopefully the younger Jack develops quickly.

 

[KevinO]

Flyhalf has been a major problem.

It's why Hegarty should have been resigned, really need to have three flyhalfs in the squad, at least two of them specialist.

 

[RebelYell]

For mine:

Smith, Hanson, Weeks, Jeffries, Timani, McMahon, Reid, Fainga'a, Stirzaker, Meehan, English, Hodge, Naivalu, Koriobete, Debreczeni

Leafa, Ah-Nau, Lomax, Day/Cummins, Mafi/Fox, Tuipulotu, Inman, Fou

I think as much as I want Lopeti playing 8, for the Rebels' squad balance he needs to be playing lock. We've not replaced Jones with a player of the same quality (Toolis looked uninspired during NRC, Day as mentioned earlier is battling in Japan), and the reality is that Cummins hasn't come on as much as Jeffries. We have the backrow depth to keep with the unpopular decision of playing LT at 5, and that's what I think we will do. Lomax was very good and seemed to move in front of both Metcher and Cruze for the tighthead position in the NRC, so I think that fresh off the Australian U20s Player of the Year he will be in the 23.

In the backline, the (rumoured) ACL suffered by Dom Shipperley is a blow; perhaps it means it's not too late to offer an olive branch to Cam Crawford, who is still living in Melbourne and yet to decide whether to keep playing professionally. I thought he was very stiff not to get a contract anyway, and if he's still there it represents a decent solution to a sticky situation.

I think Jack at 15 allows Hodge to play 12, where he will be long term, and I think Meehan has done enough to be worth a shot at 10 (at least in the interim). The Club is still supposedly looking for another 10 (Ben Lucas is a name that keeps popping up) so happy for that to change, but for the timebeing I think that is our best backline. Two specialist centres on the bench seems odd, but with both Sefa & Hodge capable of moving to multiple positions in the backline I have no issue with it. The likes of Placid, Maddocks and Macgregor could still make that bench quite comfortably

 

[RebelYell]

A further thought; with the dearth of quality 10s throughout the country, is it worth throwing Hodge back into the role at the Rebels (particularly as we have midfield and outside back depth)?

 

[RebelYell]

Final thought...

Is anybody else concerned that the majority of our squad are off contract at the end of next season? We're yet to cover the losses of Higgers, Tamati, Jones and Harris properly.

As far as I can tell, only Tuipulotu, Naivalu, Lomax, Fainga'a, Jeffries, Meehan, Toolis, McGregor, Koroibete, Maddocks and English are contracted beyond 2017, and of them only Naivalu has played Test football.

I daresay we will see a number of our players targeted by overseas and interstate Clubs, and with the likes of Hodge, McMahon, Timani, Reid, Smith all having claims to pay rises it could be carnage...

 

[Mr Wobbly]

For mine:

Smith, Hanson, Weeks, Jeffries, Timani, McMahon, Reid, Fainga'a, Stirzaker, Meehan, English, Hodge, Naivalu, Koriobete, Debreczeni

Leafa, Ah-Nau, Lomax, Day/Cummins, Mafi/Fox, Tuipulotu, Inman, Fou

I think as much as I want Lopeti playing 8, for the Rebels' squad balance he needs to be playing lock. We've not replaced Jones with a player of the same quality (Toolis looked uninspired during NRC, Day as mentioned earlier is battling in Japan), and the reality is that Cummins hasn't come on as much as Jeffries. We have the backrow depth to keep with the unpopular decision of playing LT at 5, and that's what I think we will do. Lomax was very good and seemed to move in front of both Metcher and Cruze for the tighthead position in the NRC, so I think that fresh off the Australian U20s Player of the Year he will be in the 23.

In the backline, the (rumoured) ACL suffered by Dom Shipperley is a blow; perhaps it means it's not too late to offer an olive branch to Cam Crawford, who is still living in Melbourne and yet to decide whether to keep playing professionally. I thought he was very stiff not to get a contract anyway, and if he's still there it represents a decent solution to a sticky situation.

I think Jack at 15 allows Hodge to play 12, where he will be long term, and I think Meehan has done enough to be worth a shot at 10 (at least in the interim). The Club is still supposedly looking for another 10 (Ben Lucas is a name that keeps popping up) so happy for that to change, but for the timebeing I think that is our best backline. Two specialist centres on the bench seems odd, but with both Sefa & Hodge capable of moving to multiple positions in the backline I have no issue with it. The likes of Placid, Maddocks and Macgregor could still make that bench quite comfortably

The elephant in the room, if LT plays in the second row, is the lineout.

Assuming that Jeffries is one starter, we have four other locks on the books and the best jumper among them is probably Cummins. McMahon is good in the lineout and fine as a third option, but none of Jordy, Colby or LT are likely to be more than an occasional target at 2.

Mafi doesn't jump and, I kind of doubt that Fox does either.

I think we are going to need to play two locks. One of Cummins, Retallick or Toolis needs to step up or we'll be pantsed by teams kicking to touch all night.

I'd be happy to see Crawford get another go, we could use him.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Final thought.

Is anybody else concerned that the majority of our squad are off contract at the end of next season? We're yet to cover the losses of Higgers, Tamati, Jones and Harris properly.

As far as I can tell, only Tuipulotu, Naivalu, Lomax, Fainga'a, Jeffries, Meehan, Toolis, McGregor, Koroibete, Maddocks and English are contracted beyond 2017, and of them only Naivalu has played Test football.

I daresay we will see a number of our players targeted by overseas and interstate Clubs, and with the likes of Hodge, McMahon, Timani, Reid, Smith all having claims to pay rises it could be carnage.

I am now

 

[Baldric]

Decided not to renew my 2 x Platinum memberships for 2017. I felt that I was not getting much return on my investment.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The elephant in the room, if LT plays in the second row, is the lineout.

Assuming that Jeffries is one starter, we have four other locks on the books and the best jumper among them is probably Cummins. McMahon is good in the lineout and fine as a third option, but none of Jordy, Colby or LT are likely to be more than an occasional target at 2.

Mafi doesn't jump and, I kind of doubt that Fox does either.

I think we are going to need to play two locks. One of Cummins, Retallick or Toolis needs to step up or we'll be pantsed by teams kicking to touch all night.

I'd be happy to see Crawford get another go, we could use him.

Day can jump and is a known as a bit of a line out operator

 

[amirite]

Day can jump and is a known as a bit of a line out operator

If Simmons shows us anything it's that if you can run a line out at or above league average efficiency, scrum, make tackles in traffic near the ruck, and are busy stats wise (tackles and rucks), then you're a valuable lock at professional level. A team can't wear two of them, but they can wear one.

Then again, we though Retallick was basically being primed for a veteran starter role and it just didn't eventuate.

 

[stoff]

Decided not to renew my 2 x Platinum memberships for 2017. I felt that I was not getting much return on my investment.

I didn't last season because between a newborn daughter and my mate who I went with moving to Switzerland I have struggled to get to a game. Please don't take this the wrong way, but what was the issue - results on field or something else. Generally curious.


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[Baldric]

I didn't last season because between a newborn daughter and my mate who I went with moving to Switzerland I have struggled to get to a game. Please don't take this the wrong way, but what was the issue - results on field or something else. Generally curious.


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Stoff, I am a foundation member so have been paying for two platinum seats since the first season. The cost is about $450 x 2 every year. It comes out to about $70 per game. The other offering from being a member are also fairly paltry. How many caps, and scarves do I want.

I had one phone call from the Rebels asking if I was renewing, I said I was thinking of not renewing. I have not had anyone call up and try and convince me otherwise or even find out why I was thinking of not renewing. Its not like the Rebels are flush with cash either.

In the end it is a combination of poor results (we all like our team to win), cost and lack of bang for my buck.

 

[amirite]

Stoff, I am a foundation member so have been paying for two platinum seats since the first season. The cost is about $450 x 2 every year. It comes out to about $70 per game. The other offering from being a member are also fairly paltry. How many caps, and scarves do I want.

I had one phone call from the Rebels asking if I was renewing, I said I was thinking of not renewing. I have not had anyone call up and try and convince me otherwise or even find out why I was thinking of not renewing. Its not like the Rebels are flush with cash either.

In the end it is a combination of poor results (we all like our team to win), cost and lack of bang for my buck.

Well then downgrade your package, perhaps to a 4 game package. Honestly the platinum seats seem terrible.

No one person will destroy the Rebels, but long term passionate members like yourself turning their backs will get us into the situation the Force are currently in.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Meehan played one decent game as an NRC 10, whereas JD played a whole Super season as a decent 10 in 2015. I'll add to this that after Meehan's initial outing at 10 his game was pretty error filled.

We have plenty of options at 15 - English, Maddocks, Placcid, and Shipperly when uninjured. For better or worse we have plenty of options at 15 because McGann loves utilities.

Plenty of great rugby players have had bad seasons, I don't think we can death ride JD as a 10 when our secondary options are virtually non-existent.

I also don't think we can continue to pick jd at 10 when clearly out of form - particularly at 10. Your options at 15 I would say are not necessarily better options at 15 and Meehan in last few nrc games showed may be at least good backup option at 10. Where we agree is we need more options at 10 - particularly as question marks over form of jd at 10. Sticking your head in th e sand and ignoring how poorly jd played at 10 last season does not solve this issue.


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[amirite]

I also don't think we can continue to pick jd at 10 when clearly out of form - particularly at 10. Your options at 15 I would say are not necessarily better options at 15 and Meehan in last few nrc games showed may be at least good backup option at 10. Where we agree is we need more options at 10 - particularly as question marks over form of jd at 10. Sticking your head in th e sand and ignoring how poorly jd played at 10 last season does not solve this issue.


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Considering JD has played well at 10 in the past and his NRC form will be months away by the start of the season, I don't think you can play a form card yet. 'MY options at 15' are THE options at 15 by design.

Meehan did at admirable job of filling in at 10, but if you name an XV with him at 10 in Super Rugby, where does he defend? In the line where he'll be targeted with carries or in the back 3 where they'll isolate him with high kicks?

You might accuse me of sticking my head in the sand, but I'd accuse you of been an armchair coach who's opinions have little practicality on the rugby field.

 

[Hawko]

Considering JD has played well at 10 in the past and his NRC form will be months away by the start of the season, I don't think you can play a form card yet. 'MY options at 15' are THE options at 15 by design.

Meehan did at admirable job of filling in at 10, but if you name an XV with him at 10 in Super Rugby, where does he defend? In the line where he'll be targeted with carries or in the back 3 where they'll isolate him with high kicks?

You might accuse me of sticking my head in the sand, but I'd accuse you of been an armchair coach who's opinions have little practicality on the rugby field.

JD has never set the competition alight! 2015 we saw some games where he was useful, and his kicking was very useful, but he was still a rookie that everyone thought had a lot of upside (in the NH type of 10 tradition). But in 2016 he plateaued and then towards the end of the season he went backwards at an alarming rate.

Its the totally wrong trajectory for a young 10 if he is going to develop into something special. He may step up again this year and resume his upward climb but that is off the trend line. The biggest problem is that Totality Tony has got rid of every potential up-and-coming 10 and then didn't have enough money in the pot to retain Harris against NH offers. Now if 2016 Debreczeni shows up the answer is Meehan?

Totality Tony has totally got it totally wrong. Recruiting priorities are firstly your two tight head props. But a close second is your two 10's. McGahan thinks that the first priority is the backrow, closely followed by the wingers. It has not been, and never will be, an effective winning recruitment strategy.

 

[RebelYell]

To be fair, Jack may havbe had a disappointing 2016 but his form in the Rising's last 2 or 3 games, taking the opposition defenders on and passing late, was back to his best.

I'm happy to see Benny have a run at 10 because I think Jack would be a very good 15, but if we go into the season with jack at 10 I'm okay with that.

 

[amirite]

JD has never set the competition alight! 2015 we saw some games where he was useful, and his kicking was very useful, but he was still a rookie that everyone thought had a lot of upside (in the NH type of 10 tradition). But in 2016 he plateaued and then towards the end of the season he went backwards at an alarming rate.

Its the totally wrong trajectory for a young 10 if he is going to develop into something special. He may step up again this year and resume his upward climb but that is off the trend line. The biggest problem is that Totality Tony has got rid of every potential up-and-coming 10 and then didn't have enough money in the pot to retain Harris against NH offers. Now if 2016 Debreczeni shows up the answer is Meehan?

Totality Tony has totally got it totally wrong. Recruiting priorities are firstly your two tight head props. But a close second is your two 10's. McGahan thinks that the first priority is the backrow, closely followed by the wingers. It has not been, and never will be, an effective winning recruitment strategy.

His rookie year was 2014 where he played a couple of games at fullback (so in a way, that's one to your argument). I'd say 2015 was quite a good year for him, PARTICULARLY with the boot but I suppose this is the point of contention.

Points to me are - Meehan would be targeted at 10 and it would be a mess (for reasons above), one good year and one bad year does not make a convincing trend line, and that conventional wisdom is definitely on my side.

I don't think we can say TT has got recruitment wrong, we don't know what is happening behind the scenes and outcomes don't necessarily reflect the process. I can't really think of any Aussie Super Rugby ready 10s floating around - maybe Berrick Barnes but that's just conjecture.

Also - I think the reps still have roster spots left.

Anyway, agree to disagree because it comes down to opinions on the quality of JD's 2015 play and not provable facts.