Rebels 2017

[amirite]

I really can't understand how cutting a team would do anything to improve Australia's depth.

Each Super team has about 40 players or 200 odd total over the five teams. How does reducing 200 players, currently playing and training in a professional environment, to 160 (or 120 as some advocate) players boost Australia's depth. Is the assumption that the 40 guys that are cut just go back to playing as amateurs in club rugby? I'd guess the more likely scenario is that most of those guys will depart Aus rugby en masse, either heading OS or retiring.

Sure, logic would tell us that the remaining four (or three) Super teams would be more competitive but they weren't more competitive when we did have only four (or three) teams, so -

Having fewer teams means less kids being inspired to give rugby a go.

Reduced opportunity for young players to score a contract (before they accept an overseas one).

Even less column inches or media attention in general.

Less teams means a shit tonne less sponsorship and broadcast money.

Beware of unintended consequences.

Google a company called Gain Line Analytics. They've got plenty of content on why one less team would improve Australian performance, amongst other things.

You could also hire 10 extra players per franchise (or at least 5), so the collective amount of professional athletes isn't the issue here. Plus, losing one professional team won't drive players overseas, they're already leaving!

HOWEVER, I don't necessarily think this is entirely a performance discussion. It's a case of national footprint and having a strong rugby presence across all cities because it gives more people access to the live entertainment side of our great game. It's also no secret that the local rugby infrastructure VASTLY improves when there's a professional side.

However, I think the argument that less teams means less kids are inspired (because they only care about professional contracts?) is a bit of a silly argument. Never really heard a logically explanation as to why that's the case.

 

[amirite]

Wow, did you even try to base this post on any facts or did you think you'd just Trump your way through it?

Fuck me, Trump comparisons should be the new Godwin's Law.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Google a company called Gain Line Analytics. They've got plenty of content on why one less team would improve Australian performance, amongst other things.

You could also hire 10 extra players per franchise (or at least 5), so the collective amount of professional athletes isn't the issue here. Plus, losing one professional team won't drive players overseas, they're already leaving!

HOWEVER, I don't necessarily think this is entirely a performance discussion. It's a case of national footprint and having a strong rugby presence across all cities because it gives more people access to the live entertainment side of our great game. It's also no secret that the local rugby infrastructure VASTLY improves when there's a professional side.

However, I think the argument that less teams means less kids are inspired (because they only care about professional contracts?) is a bit of a silly argument. Never really heard a logically explanation as to why that's the case.

Australia are currently 3rd in the WRR, seems we're usually sitting somewhere between 2nd and 5th - regardless of how many Super teams we've had at the time.

Hiring extra players per team just means more blokes on minimum training contracts, I doubt that will be enough to keep many here. We already have something like enough players for four more teams playing professionally overseas. I can't see how cutting the number of players won't lead to even more heading offshore.

I agree with your 3rd paragraph, 100%.

I disagree with your 4th paragraph, 100%

If you go to an AFL game you'll see all of the kids have their favourite player's number on the back of their jumpers. Kids love their heroes. You don't think that kids would be inspired by going to a game at AAMI and watching Sefa flying down the right wing? You don't think seeing pro players running clinics for kids or visiting schools makes any difference? Or that talented young players, like Tuipulotu or Leota can see a professional pathway in front of them. I reckon, long term, we need kids in Melbourne (and Perth and Canberra) thinking that they want to be a Wallaby, like Sefa or Hodge or McMahon.

 

[Rebels3]

I really can't understand how cutting a team would do anything to improve Australia's depth.

Each Super team has about 40 players or 200 odd total over the five teams. How does reducing 200 players, currently playing and training in a professional environment, to 160 (or 120 as some advocate) players boost Australia's depth. Is the assumption that the 40 guys that are cut just go back to playing as amateurs in club rugby? I'd guess the more likely scenario is that most of those guys will depart Aus rugby en masse, either heading OS or retiring.

Sure, logic would tell us that the remaining four (or three) Super teams would be more competitive but they weren't more competitive when we did have only four (or three) teams, so -

Having fewer teams means less kids being inspired to give rugby a go.

Reduced opportunity for young players to score a contract (before they accept an overseas one).

Even less column inches or media attention in general.

Less teams means a shit tonne less sponsorship and broadcast money.

Beware of unintended consequences.

I completely agree with this. Under certain logic, all 40 players without contracts would filter back into the other 4 teams. However lets say Ben McCalman for example is earning $250-300k at the force, who is going to pay him this money at the other franchises? Surely the remaining teams wouldn't be able to pay certain players what their market worth is? So once again you'd probably end up with the same squads that are currently on paper, barring the odd exception.

Plus then there's the arguments of giving a community the big f u (good luck returning their in the future), the leg up nrl would receive (esp in the west, they would have a franchise there within a season) and the lack of opportunities for talented youngsters who are fielding offers from 16 NRL clubs or 4 maybe 3 Union teams. No thanks

 

[Rebels3]

Australia are currently 3rd in the WRR, seems we're usually sitting somewhere between 2nd and 5th - regardless of how many Super teams we've had at the time.

Hiring extra players per team just means more blokes on minimum training contracts, I doubt that will be enough to keep many here. We already have something like enough players for four more teams playing professionally overseas. I can't see how cutting the number of players won't lead to even more heading offshore.

I agree with your 3rd paragraph, 100%.

I disagree with your 4th paragraph, 100%

If you go to an AFL game you'll see all of the kids have their favourite player's number on the back of their jumpers. Kids love their heroes. You don't think that kids would be inspired by going to a game at AAMI and watching Sefa flying down the right wing? You don't think seeing pro players running clinics for kids or visiting schools makes any difference? Or that talented young players, like Tuipulotu or Leota can see a professional pathway in front of them. I reckon, long term, we need kids in Melbourne (and Perth and Canberra) thinking that they want to be a Wallaby, like Sefa or Hodge or McMahon.

Stop writing with sense

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Background piece on JG-B in The Age*

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...ardenbachop-chases-debut-20170218-gufwod.html

*couldnt help but notice they've got "AFL" two tabs to the right of "home". Says a lot about the standing of the game down those ways..............

 

[Lindommer]

Could one of the boys with sombreroes please put up a wounded Rebels list? Sadly it seems to be extensive even at his early stage of the season.

 

[swingpass]

Smith - hamstring 12 weeks
Toolis - neck season ?
McMahon - ankle ? Round 6
Day - shoulder ? Round 2 - 3
Jeffries - shoulder ? Round 2 - 3
Pau - ACL again season
Leota - ACL last NRC ? When
Metcher - ? ankle ? Long
Koroibete ?
Anyone else ?

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Is Dom Shiperley back?

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Smith - hamstring 12 weeks
Toolis - neck season ?
McMahon - ankle ? Round 6
Day - shoulder ? Round 2 - 3
Jeffries - shoulder ? Round 2 - 3
Pau - ACL again season
Leota - ACL last NRC ? When
Metcher - ? ankle ? Long
Koroibete ?
Anyone else ?

Inman might also be on the list of walking wounded.

For me, Smith is the biggest loss out of that list followed by Sean.

Is Dom Shiperley back?

I think I read a while ago that Shipperley had started doing some running, not sure if he's back in full training yet though.

 

[amirite]

There was a lot of talk a month or two ago of a particularly bullish Rebels preseason in terms of contact work. Talk was the blokes just weren't tough enough last year and it was an effort to turn it around.

Could this have contributed? Or perhaps S&C workload? Or both?

Statistical anomalies happen, but this many injuries is QUITE the anomaly.

 

[TOCC]

Who's the S&C coach, has it changed in the offseason?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[swingpass]

These dont appear to be soft tissue overuse injuries. The hamstring aside. Day came back from Japan injured, McMahon got fucked over by the Wobs staff, the others i dint know but could be contact related. Its a tough sport and shit happens. I suspect more bad luck than bad management.

 

[amirite]

Who's the S&C coach, has it changed in the offseason?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sorry - same S&C guy, new Head of Performance. I'm not sure how this differs from S&C seeing as the man (Damian Mednis) has worked in an S&C capacity before.

 

[amirite]

Who's to say it's not 'soft tissue'? Though shoulders could be ACs and last I checked ACL was a ligament too.

Injuries often come from bad movement patterns, if every contact situation was handled perfectly by both rugby players then nobody would ever get hurt. Now, the fact there's so many injuries could be bad luck, or it could be mismanaged workloads or lack of fitness in certain areas leading to bad movement, leading to injuries.

Once again, I am NOT saying it's definitely the case. But it's very simple to say 'it's bad luck' and move on.

 

[Dave Beat]

Ah Rebs, come calling to the Shute Shield again, the grass roots.


Nah serious guys, Tahs's pathwathway is Uni, Wicks, how they picked Horwits, or Kellaway over Hodge i have NFI - another young kid -
You need a prop? A former Manly junior will fill the bill; Rory O’Connor. He impressed as the loosehead prop for AUS U20 in 2014 and, after sadly going to Warringah, has dominated in SS.

 

[dru]

Dave your schadenfreude is palpable.

FWIW, I'd like to think some of your boys do get a call for injury cover, and then perform so well they get etched into Super rugby.

 

[amirite]

Dave your schadenfreude is palpable.

FWIW, I'd like to think some of your boys do get a call for injury cover, and then perform so well they get etched into Super rugby.

I'd honestly rather us back one of the boys that've come down to do Rebels preseason and Super 20s. There's a few gooduns.

They're familiar with our systems and in all honestly this late call-up is unlikely to get minutes anyway. Invest in our future because these guys have invested in us.

 

[dru]

I'd honestly rather us back one of the boys that've come down to do Rebels preseason and Super 20s. There's a few gooduns.

They're familiar with our systems and in all honestly this late call-up is unlikely to get minutes anyway. Invest in our future because these guys have invested in us.

I dont disagree. But I was thinking just how much the Reds hot out of Matwijou. Talent must be offered a shot if its there. Obviously from your own ranks first.

 

[Highlander35]

With Day and Jeffries hopefully due back between the two byes, I'd vastly prefer to just rely on Timani, Retallick and Cummins with Douglas hanging around just in case.

With Toby out till mid May, and Metcher supposedly injured again with unknown duration, I'd not mind bringing down another tighthead to join Sa'aga as the backup props till June.

Otherwise I reckon that between the injury cover we've already signed and the locals, we should be fine IF the player availability doesn't get worse.