Rebels 2014

[KevinO]

Sorry but how is it sorted, he hardly has a reputation at all?

Reputation, have you watched him play for London Irish? Your a long way for England and not going to hear everything from here.

 

[en_force_er]

Sorry but how is it sorted, he hardly has a reputation at all?

I watched him play a couple of times on Setanta.

He's solid, but he's never going to play for England unless he improves a whole lot (possible because he's young but let's remember England have great young props playing for them now and plenty coming through).

He probably wouldn't even be a starter if Cobisero wasn't always injured.

 

[qwerty51]

Reputation, have you watched him play for London Irish? Your a long way for England and not going to hear everything from here.

I probably watch more Aviva Premiership games than you. He's ok but doesn't stand out at all, not much to talk about. I see him being pretty average over here. We will see though.

 

[Dumbledore]

I'd take Jones ahead of Neville, but otherwise agree.

Nic Henderson is still doing well at LHP, the Rebels (like most Super teams atm) just need a good THP.

Can only assume you're trolling. Henderson has been found wanting in every single department of the game. He's just not good enough. Probably a good guy to have around the club etc. but if we want to go anywhere he can't be starting next year. Lahiff will help there. He's an adequate scrummager up North by all accounts and a beast around the park - he'll be an immediate upgrade. Weeks has been completely fine so far at tighthead this year, while PAE is the most talented THP to come through the system since, well, there's been a system. He had a shocking ten minutes against the Crusaders, but apart from that he's been very good. Hasn't had quite the impact of his U20s mate Sio, but he's not working with the same calibre of coaches the Brumbies have. If Robinson stays I'll be happy, otherwise we need to start casting a seriously wide net ASAP.

Lahiff
x
Weeks
Neville
Pyle
Jones
Fainga'a
Higgers

That's a big, strong, well-balanced pack.

 

[KevinO]

I watched him play a couple of times on Setanta.

He's solid, but he's never going to play for England unless he improves a whole lot (possible because he's young but let's remember England have great young props playing for them now and plenty coming through).

He probably wouldn't even be a starter if Cobisero wasn't always injured.

He is young, and playing for a side that peaked a few season's back and is rebuilding. I agree Cobisero would start if he was fit, but Lahiff has been a pretty solid back up for long enough and will be working pretty hard for a starting spot.

I think the majority of props in England are likely to be pretty good hear, Australia quality in props has never been deep enough. You look at the current list and there is no one who really stands out the way Franks, Woodcock, Du Plessis, Healy, Cole, Jenkins or Jones do on the team sheet.

Only prop in the World I have even gone with for first try is Healy (Once off drunk choice, but it did come in)

 

[en_force_er]

Lahiff is a 2nd choice starting prop in the English league (behind Cobisero, an excellent player who's always injured).

Their scrums are better than ours but overall their league quality is lower in most facets (maybe not in kicking, breakdown intensity, and contact, but certainly in general skills, speed, line-out, decision making, etc).

Given he is a decent but not dominant player back home, what makes you think he'd be dominant here?

He'll be fine, maybe one day he'll be better than fine but I wouldn't expect him to tower over Hendo on form, a player who's okay on the field and a bonafide ledgend off it.

EDIT: This post is in general and not directed at KevinO. I think our props in Aus are actually good rugby players, just not great scrummagers. Lahiff is a good scrumager (by our standards) but will probably not stand out around the park compared to our lot.

 

[Bowside]

so Weekes, PAE, Lahiff, Henderson, Alohei, Ah Nau

It's 1-2 quality props off being up to the standard of the competition.

Shame Palmers off overseas he would have been useful.

 

[daz]

Lahiff will help there. He's an adequate scrummager up North by all accounts and a beast around the park - he'll be an immediate upgrade.

I tend to agree with en_force_er on this one. The leap into Super Rugby by a young guy who is still not a regular starter, regardless of how talented he is, is a big one.

I doubt he will be "an immediate upgrade". Very happy to be proven wrong but at this point it is nothing more than an assumption.

 

[Bowside]

Have the rebels found a flyhalf yet?

They might as well go the force route and poach a bunch of schoolboys hoping they turn out to be like O'Connor. On the field that is, not so much off it.

 

[KevinO]

I think we need the good scrumager's, I agree that the props in Australia are handy around the park. But when you have to play 4 games against South Africian teams every season being good around the park ain't going to be enough. We give away to many penalties at scrum time and hopefully Lahiff does not tripod as much as Hendo.

Watching Lahiff he should be able to adjust his game to suit Super Rugby quite easy, he already is suited to our comp more than the English with his size and agility and I am quite pleased he decided to play a season in the ITM cup to adapt to the style of play he is going to encounter.

 

[James Buchanan]

Can only assume you're trolling. Henderson has been found wanting in every single department of the game. He's just not good enough. Probably a good guy to have around the club etc. but if we want to go anywhere he can't be starting next year. Lahiff will help there. He's an adequate scrummager up North by all accounts and a beast around the park - he'll be an immediate upgrade. Weeks has been completely fine so far at tighthead this year, while PAE is the most talented THP to come through the system since, well, there's been a system. He had a shocking ten minutes against the Crusaders, but apart from that he's been very good. Hasn't had quite the impact of his U20s mate Sio, but he's not working with the same calibre of coaches the Brumbies have. If Robinson stays I'll be happy, otherwise we need to start casting a seriously wide net ASAP.

I think the coaching element is an important one. The scrum is an obvious weakness of the Rebels and I hope that they are looking into getting their hands on an improved scrum coach for the team. It's a bit of a left field suggestion but do you think there's any chance that Somerville would be interested in coming back in a coaching capacity? He's got some ties to the team and certainly has the playing experience to impart upon young props.

That being said, I think Lahiff is a good get. As many have identified, he is still young which fits with the ongoing dynamic of the team that is being built. Despite that, he is developed enough to be a genuine option to play and even start should he deliver the goods. Further, his experience in the english leagues should have given him exposure to high level scrummaging, which can only be good for the Rebels. Even if he is not a Dan Cole or some other dominant scrummager he is an improvement on many other options available to us.

 

[Dumbledore]

I tend to agree with en_force_er on this one. The leap into Super Rugby by a young guy who is still not a regular starter, regardless of how talented he is, is a big one.

I doubt he will be "an immediate upgrade". Very happy to be proven wrong but at this point it is nothing more than an assumption.

Normally I'd agree with you, but broadly speaking Henderson has been our worst player this year. Has he got through a single scrum without propping himself up with his hand?

 

[Dumbledore]

Have the rebels found a flyhalf yet?

They might as well go the force route and poach a bunch of schoolboys hoping they turn out to be like O'Connor. On the field that is, not so much off it.

What's he done off the field that hasn't met your standards, Bowside?

 

[en_force_er]

Have the rebels found a flyhalf yet?

They might as well go the force route and poach a bunch of schoolboys hoping they turn out to be like O'Connor. On the field that is, not so much off it.

Sam Christie is a decent player and if we get him (I have no reason to believe we will), retain JOC (James O'Connor) or (unlikely) KB (Kurtley Beale), and plus we have already gave Hegarty (who looks good, but will be tested tonight) and Roberts (could come good) we're fine.

I'm not sweating on 10 but I'd like to see us pinch SC because the Force have plenty and I think they gave up on an exciting prospect too soon.

12 however, I'm sweating on very much. We need a better 12 and nothing leads me to believe we're getting one.

 

[daz]

Normally I'd agree with you, but broadly speaking Henderson has been our worst player this year. Has he got through a single scrum without propping himself up with his hand?

Not many, no.

 

[Dumbledore]

12 however, I'm sweating on very much. We need a better 12 and nothing leads me to believe we're getting one.

Need to be scouring the entire world for a 12. Sidey isn't up to it. Mitchell tries hard but gets exposed way too easily on defence. The pretty simple solution is JOC (James O'Connor) to 12, at which point we suddenly find ourselves with the best 12 in the world but noooo he got stepped by McCabe one time so it can never be tried ever again ever.

 

[James Buchanan]

Sam Christie is a decent player and if we get him (I have no reason to believe we will), retain JOC (James O'Connor) or (unlikely) KB (Kurtley Beale), and plus we have already gave Hegarty (who looks good, but will be tested tonight) and Roberts (could come good) we're fine.

I'm not with you on Christie. His age counts against him in my mind.

I have a lot more time for Roberts than many on this forum. I think he has some real potential but is simply raw at the moment and was thrust into a tough situation too soon. He will (and hopefully has) learn(ed) from the experience and I hope will be a better player for it. I just think that most young flyhalves are inconsistent when first introduced to Super Rugby and to completely discard him for a couple of bad games on tour in South Africa amidst tough external circumstance would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Between him and Hegarty, I think the Rebels are doing the right thing in developing their own 5/8th stocks, particularly as they have drawn upon drastically different sources for the two of them. But with all young players in development, you have to give them time to find their feet.

 

[en_force_er]

I'm not with you on Christie. His age counts against him in my mind.

It's all about PLAYING AGE. He's got a low playing age, having limited play time in professional rugby.

Perhaps it counts against him in some ways, low experience for an older guy, but it sure means his body will last longer.

 

[James Buchanan]

It's all about PLAYING AGE. He's got a low playing age, having limited play time in professional rugby.

Perhaps it counts against him in some ways, low experience for an older guy, but it sure means his body will last longer.

Not entirely. Younger players do have more physical development in them and hence more upside in that regard, if they are a developing player. Further, younger minds are more pliable and adaptable, which means they are less set in certain modes of thinking and can be coached out of bad habits easier. My concerns are not about longevity but development. At his age, Christie unfortunately has less upside to him than a younger player because of what I mentioned above and if you are looking for a development player which unfortunately Christie would be, you do well to err on the side of the younger player.

 

[Tex]

Have the rebels found a flyhalf yet?

They might as well go the force route and poach a bunch of schoolboys hoping they turn out to be like O'Connor. On the field that is, not so much off it.

Hegarty showed plenty of promise tonight. He's a very deceptive ball player and looked at home as starting 5/8. JOC (James O'Connor) would benefit playing outside of him, perhaps in a similar way that Giteau did outside of Larkham (not comparing Hegarty to Bernie, just the extra space).