Rebels 2013

[qwerty51]

I guess all the time off he's spent in the gym, looking pretty big. Hope he hasn't lost any agility or speed.

 

[en_force_er]

Since being educated by En_force_er, I'm willing to say this is a good get.

I'm not going to lie, I was pretty stoked and I think the Rebels should give me at least SOME credit for stealing my idea.

Seriously though, I guess we can assume the Reds Academy isn't a formal arrangement and it's simply a case of Horie being best uncontracted hooker mulling around Australia. In Aussie we certainly have some good EPS prospects running about but your 2nd main squad hooker is guaranteed game time (baring injury) and can't be a bright eyed 18 year old.

Good pick up Rebels but it's not without its risks I suppose. Still, this is what an expansion side like ours has to do sometimes, contract players who could be great or flop rather than take a 3rd tier NZ player who we can guarantee will fly under the radar.

 

[en_force_er]

On another note there's the the community engagement front. Just think of all the great work he could do!

The Rebels have really used the Islander players to capture the hearts and minds of the kids of those demographics and Horie opens unexplored boarders.

 

[en_force_er]

A funny video. On the plus side he seems to understand a heap of English (more than his Highlanders mate Tanaka).

He's spent a few months in NZ and Aus since this so we can expect his English to be a little better.

 

[kronic]

Now if only the Japanese Football types got into Rugby, some of the best supporters in Asia.

 

[tigerland12]

I think it's great that both Tanaka and Horie are now Super Rugby contracted. And both of them look like they'll be in the regular 22 for their sides.

Hopefully it can encourage more Japanese players to strive to make Super Rugby. It's only positive for the world game.

 

[en_force_er]

I think it's great that both Tanaka and Horie are now Super Rugby contracted. And both of them look like they'll be in the regular 22 for their sides.

Hopefully it can encourage more Japanese players to strive to make Super Rugby. It's only positive for the world game.

Based on watching them play maybe 5-8 times over probably a 3 years period there are a couple of others who could make the jump (not counting guys like Ryan Nicholas or Michael Broadhurst who already had a crack at Super Rugby before earning Japanese residency).

The blokes I'd suggest are:

• Takashi Kikutani: Their 6/8 and former captain (under their last coaching set-up). Good player and very big for an ethnically Japanese man. However, he's probably too old at 32.
• Michael Leitch: Their 7 who did some growing up in NZ but appears to have spend plenty of time in Japan (maybe his parents moved their for business?). At 24 years old and as an English speaker he's a great candidate.
• Hisateru Hirashima: A Tighthead prop who can scrummage low (and I mean f-ing low, lowest I've seen). At 29 you'd get a good season or two out of him.
• There was a big angry winger two but I couldn't track his name (lift your game wikipedia!).

That being said I doubt we'll see too many Japanese players playing Super Rugby soon. The basically get contracted to a Top League club for life and Tanaka/Horie (who both play for the Wild Knights I think) had to be specially allowed to play elsewhere for a while by their Japanese company/team. They basically are promised jobs at their company/Top League teams once they retire from rugby, it's considered a high honour to work for the same organisation for your whole life.

This is why it isn't as simple as giving Japan a couple of Super Rugby teams and them centralising their talent and letting rip, there's too many cultural values that have to be changed, it's not out and out professionalism.

HOWEVER, Japanese Soccer managed to change to a more typical professional system so maybe rugby could.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I imagine Argentinians will flourish in the super 15 more than the japanese. I personally think that the argentines should not count as overseas marquees as they donty have a pro competition and the rugby championship is making them a less attractive option for France.

I think second and third tier rugby nations should not be counted overseas marquees period.........except Samoa because they are liek the brazilians of soccer (they are playing everywhere)

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I completely agree with you on the argentinians. that should be the way across SA, AUS and NZ teams - they aren't marquees or alternatively allow 2-3 argies per Super rugby team and a further 2-3 marquees per team.
It would be a huge benefit to the argentinian national team having their players in a league which makes them more readily available for the four nations.
would be great to see players like hernandez, comancho etc more regularly. thankfully most of them play in france where their skills aren't completely wasted.

 

[en_force_er]

I don't think WE should foot the bill for Argentinean development but I've very happy to accept the Argentineans and the Japanese in our league filling the international spots we currently have. The current number of internationals is good, they flavour and add depth to our provinces without taking spots away from many Aussie players that deserve them.

I think a more feasible resolution would be to get together with Japan and create a deal in which they play roughly same time period each year as Super Rugby, right now their season is way out of whack with the rest of the world.

From there, you create a deal with them limiting the amount of Aussies, Saffas, and Kiwis playing from them but encouraging the recruiting of Argentineans, Samoans, Fijians, and Tongans. They already have the spots for international players, it'd just be a case of investing them in a way that benefits everyone and not just 3rd tier or retiring Aussies/Kiwis.

This is the most logical system for growing our hemispheres rugby without any wacky infrastructure changes like asking us to foot Argenina's player salary bills or anything.

From there we watch our hemisphere's rugby thrive.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't think WE should foot the bill for Argentinean development but I've very happy to accept the Argentineans and the Japanese in our league filling the international spots we currently have. The current number of internationals is good, they flavour and add depth to our provinces without taking spots away from many Aussie players that deserve them.

Look upon it as spreading the gospel of the game they play n heaven.
The kiwis have saved our bacon more than once.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[en_force_er]

Look upon it as spreading the gospel of the game they play n heaven.
The kiwis have saved our bacon more than once.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It doesn't make sense though, we already have 8 spots at the Rebels, 3 at the Force, and 2 at the Tahs/Brumbies/Waratahs. So minus 5 spots, of which I believe are development player spots, we have 12 spots potentially available for Argentinean recruitment and we currently have 0 Argentineans. We need to change out recruitment culture, not the number of spots we have.

I think it's much more logical to have the Japanese league foot most of the bill, they already have the spots for internationals. The reality is a player who is good enough to make the Argy 35 man squad for the Rugby Championship is more valuable than a 3rd rate or ageing Aussie/Kiwi, it's just a case of the Argentinean Rugby Union pointing all their players Japan's way. They already have the spots it's just a case of changing their recruitment culture (same as for Aus).

I think the Top League is being ignored for the tool it could be if we welcomed the Japanese to the SANZAR table.

 

[en_force_er]

None of what I'm proposing is particularly crazy, certainly much less crazy then the idea of adding Super teams to the Americas and the Polynesian Islands like some suggest.

Let's focus on effectively using current infrastructure before we look to change infrastructure, obviously it'd be nice for Argentina to have their own Super rugby sides (and hopefully they will) but the the reality is they could start implementing my suggestions tomorrow if they had to.

 

[James Buchanan]

Frankly, we cannot offer the same sort of money as what the Argentine players can make in France.

 

[en_force_er]

Frankly, we cannot offer the same sort of money as what the Argentine players can make in France.

True, but almost as many of them play in England as France and they don't pay more than us.

 

[qwerty51]

I can't agree, with only 5 teams we cannot have any more foreign players who are not Wallaby candidates in our ranks. England and France are able to get away with it because they have 12/14 teams in their comps.

 

[en_force_er]

I can't agree, with only 5 teams we cannot have any more foreign players who are not Wallaby candidates in our ranks. England and France are able to get away with it because they have 12/14 teams in their comps.

I agree, we don't want to follow in Ireland's footsteps where our provinces are dominant but our national team is consistently poor and we have to pick players from obscurity.

 

[KevinO]

I agree, we don't want to follow in Ireland's footsteps where our provinces are dominant but our national team is consistently poor and we have to pick players from obscurity.

Ireland's problem is not the amount on international players, the country only has about 5 million people and is in the same vote as Australia where Rugby Union ranks at about 4th for the most popular sports. Munster won the Heineken Cup with pretty much a full Irish squad. Ireland's problem is and has always been that Munster/Leinster and Ulster will never agree with each other and do what's best for there Rugby.

I would like to see some Argies play Super Rugby but agree that teams don't require any more International spots in there roster, maybe just make it that any player from Argentina does not count under the salary cap which will attract clubs to sign them so they can have money to work with signing Australian players as well.

 

[en_force_er]

Ireland's problem is not the amount on international players, the country only has about 5 million people and is in the same vote as Australia where Rugby Union ranks at about 4th for the most popular sports. Munster won the Heineken Cup with pretty much a full Irish squad. Ireland's problem is and has always been that Munster/Leinster and Ulster will never agree with each other and do what's best for there Rugby.

I would like to see some Argies play Super Rugby but agree that teams don't require any more International spots in there roster, maybe just make it that any player from Argentina does not count under the salary cap which will attract clubs to sign them so they can have money to work with signing Australian players as well.

The issue of the provinces disagreeing and Ireland giving away International spots are both issues.

Why did Michael Bent get a cap for Ireland? Because there was only 1 tighthead getting decent minutes in Ireland that was Irish (and he was the starter).

Strauss on the other hand was starting over a player who was ranked as Irelands starting hooker at times (though it would appear now Strauss is the 1st choice).

I'm not completely uninformed on the subject.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

i think it was more all decent tghtheads were injured......so what can you do?

Lets be honest in Aus rugby is an elitist sport, playe by a select grou of schools seriously. So until that changes your still going to be selecting from the same small group of players. Letting teams pick a couple of argentinians free of penalty isnt really going to affect our national game in the run of things as i doubt oz scouts will be flocking rosario to pick up argentinians left right and centre. but clubs ight pick up omeone liek juan imhoff for a season and then keep him or let him go.

if we sip over a half decet aussie inn the process i am not that worried as i thik peope underestimate the amount of expats we have kicking around european leagues.

And realistically if your good enough you will make it regardless if you have to compete with a argentinian or not