Rd 8: NSFW Waratahs vs The Auckland Blues

[Brumby Runner]

Is this like a word jumble challenge to BR?

No, just a good bit of clarity on the part of another poster, even one with two light blue eyes.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Cheika was on Fox yesterday, they aren't being rested, they are doing an extra fitness work block without the need to taper for a game on the end of that week

Theory is that each player has 25 games in them each season and he wants players peaking for two sets of games, 4 in the the rugby championship and then in the 7 in a row at the WC.

So, an outside back gets rooted the same as a front rower or back rower after a scientifically identified 25 games. Pure BS.

 

[Pfitzy]

Sadly a loss, but a very good 60 minute performance from the Tahs.
What was going on in the first 20 I don't know,

Midfield combination failed to click, and we didn't have the ball. Hunt strangely quiet.

The forward pack with the ball bossed it, and the forward pack without the ball shat the bed.

Throw in Beale transferring pressure for an intercept, and Folau's 50% successful passing rate, and that's the game.

Had we kept the same backline for 3 weeks I reckon we go closer to winning.

 

[Silverado]

Well, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) went off so I thought I'd give him his due. Bringing on Staniforth in place of Hanigan, was a masterstroke.

Anyone know why Hanigan was replaced? I must say agree that Staniforth was top notch when he came on but it's a bit of a mystery

 

[KOB1987]

So, an outside back gets rooted the same as a front rower or back rower after a scientifically identified 25 games. Pure BS.

It's probably safe to assume that the S&C training regime for an outside back is different to that of a forward. In a high intensity game a winger will burn just as many calories and lactic acid as a #7, just through different means.

I'm thinking Cheika's team has done a more in depth analysis on the matter than you so I'm going with theirs.

 

[fatprop]

So, an outside back gets rooted the same as a front rower or back rower after a scientifically identified 25 games. Pure BS.

They have different physical requirements obviously, but clearly you know better than the S&C team of the wobs.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm thinking Cheika's team has done a more in depth analysis on the matter than you so I'm going with theirs.

Do you have any knowledge of the research or studies upon which they are acting? Or is this just a question of faith?

 

[KOB1987]

Do you have any knowledge of the research or studies upon which they are acting? Or is this just a question of faith?

No but I'm assuming they have consulted with someone who is more up to speed on the matter than you or me. Whilst we may be in a bit of a lull at the moment in our code, our overall record as a nation in the area of professional sport, and even rugby union, is pretty good. World class I would say. So I'm just working on the assumption that there are people involved in the process who know what they're doing.

 

[Up the Guts]

No but I'm assuming they have consulted with someone who is more up to speed on the matter than you or me. Whilst we may be in a bit of a lull at the moment in our code, our overall record as a nation in the area of professional sport, and even rugby union, is pretty good. World class I would say. So I'm just working on the assumption that there are people involved in the process who know what they're doing.

Bit of an argument from authority there. I’d like to see the data myself.

 

[Braveheart81]

When the All Blacks rest players in RWC years everyone seems to think it's a smart thing to do.

Now the Wallabies are doing it and everyone is questioning whether it is pseudo-scientific rubbish and that the number of games played in a season is irrelevant.

How often have people commented in previous seasons that our players look tired at the end of the End of Year Tour?

Anytime in the past where Cheika has said he wants the players fitter people have suggested that it is his responsibility and he can't blame others. He's now got a program where he's putting extra fitness into key players and people are unhappy with that.

It seems like whatever we were doing it would be the wrong choice in some people's eyes.

 

[KOB1987]

Bit of an argument from authority there. I’d like to see the data myself.

well call them and ask for it. What are you intending to do with it? i.e. are you qualified to properly analyse it?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

How often have people commented in previous seasons that our players look tired at the end of the End of Year Tour?

Gotta rest em. Sam Whitelock on 2018 EOYT was basically a contractual obligation. He was knackered

 

[Strewthcobber]

The teams should have just rested the players for away games only, preferably ones at odd hours, and then barely anyone would give a shit.

Makes me think this is all a Shute Shield/NSWRU conspiracy to piss off RA.

No funding revenge like having to answer complicated strength and conditioning journalists questions through the media

 

[Up the Guts]

well call them and ask for it. What are you intending to do with it? i.e. are you qualified to properly analyse it?

I'd like to know if it's purely an observational study or there is scientific backing behind it. I totally get managing the workload of older, injury prone players like nearly headless David Pocock or managing the workload of concussion prone players like Ryan Crotty. I'm not sure for the average player whether one game off at the beginning of the season is going to make a tremendous amount of long term difference.

 

[fatprop]

Bit of an argument from authority there. I’d like to see the data myself.

Have a look at Cheika's interview on fox before the Tah's game, the logic appears to be wanting to see the core group be fitter.

It is about the easiest way to improve a player's overall performance be that a back or a pig in the short term.

We also know they generally don't get a proper training block prior to the season as they all have to get their allocated rest time, so I can see a logic to it.

As to the specific number, well, they can't be at peak performance from Feb to Nov, we also know every player by now is playing with some level of injury that will be managed throughout the season, so work them hard, get that core work done, lighten the load as needed

One comment Cheika said that he is planning to see a team fit enough and still fresh enough to train hard in the week before the RWC.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm not sure for the average player whether one game off at the beginning of the season is going to make a tremendous amount of long term difference.

I think it would be very clear it's not going to make a tremendous amount of difference.

You're trying to get small gains that could make the difference at the business end of the year.

There's also very limited times when they can get more fitness/strength work into players as the season wears on. Players get banged up and managing them from week to week becomes a crucial factor.

Observation is a big part of science. They are very definitely consulting with sports science companies and collecting a log of data about player workloads and efforts etc. They measure pretty much everything. I can guarantee you this isn't just some guy standing on the sideline speculating about what he thinks is a good idea.

 

[Up the Guts]

I think it would be very clear it's not going to make a tremendous amount of difference.

You're trying to get small gains that could make the difference at the business end of the year.

And that's where this whole resting policy becomes disputable. Even if there are small gains are they actually going to make a difference? I don't remember losing games last year because of a lack of fitness but I do remember some very strange selections and questionable defensive patterns. In fact we played a lot better against Ireland before the players were put through Cheika's fitness gauntlet before the Rugby Championship. Seems to me like we're trying to solve something that wasn't really a great issue to start with.

And on the other side, the resting policy has meant we've got players like Beale, who have been stuffed around for the first half of the season, completely out of form.

 

[Derpus]

And on the other side, the resting policy has meant we've got players like Beale, who have been stuffed around for the first half of the season, completely out of form.

Not convinced Beale's issue is form. He's looked fine and still has that spark going forward, He's just not putting hits on in defence and he's been a pretty major liability.

 

[Bobby Sands]

well call them and ask for it. What are you intending to do with it? i.e. are you qualified to properly analyse it?

Data science is, a complicated, if not incomplete artform. The authors of freakanomics proved this.

 

[fatprop]

And on the other side, the resting policy has meant we've got players like Beale, who have been stuffed around for the first half of the season, completely out of form.

Well we know now it isn't a "resting policy" where units have their feet up on deck chairs while they have a nap for a week