RD 16: QLD v JAGUARES (AKA Argentina) - Lang Park 1/6 7.45

[Derpus]

Hegarty at 10 with Stewart and Kerevi taking up out of hand kicking duties. Lucas, Sorovi and Campbell off the bench.

If they somehow cling onto Kerevi and can stay fit the Reds have a pretty handy backline.

 

[TSR]

From what has been posted, Kerevi is gone.

I think there is promise in the group of McDermott, Sorovi, Hegarty, Stewart, Petaia, CFS, Daugunu, Speight & Lucas but if they all play no better then the 2019 version of themselves, both individually & as a group then we will remain a level below most of the competition. Plus the standard of the next 3-4 players will be important.

 

[Up the Guts]

The Reds/Wallabies need to make sure they hold onto Daugunu until he’s Wallaby eligible. He’s the most electric winger in Australia, very impressed with his performance last night.

 

[liquor box]

Wasn’t a fan

To be fair don’t like the idea of one in general but it just comes across worse when you’ve got “performers” doing it for you, if you’re going to “challenge” a team then do it yourself, don’t get a bunch of old mates who are all overweight with man titties doing it for you. They also went over halfway while doing it which I thought was a big no no these days

I have never liked the idea of a "war" dance being used in sport, sport is meant to bring people together, not start wars.

I know this is being too literal, but if we are meant to respect what the performers are doing then we must accept what the dance represents.

 

[Show-n-go]

I have never liked the idea of a "war" dance being used in sport, sport is meant to bring people together, not start wars.

I know this is being too literal, but if we are meant to respect what the performers are doing then we must accept what the dance represents.

I struggle with it because as far as I can tell, the idea of an aboriginal war dance is completely manufactured, I struggle to find any information about it on the internet prior to 2014 or so, I never learnt about it in school and from what I’ve been able to garner even inter-tribal wars/battles seemed to be little to non-existent

 

[Adam84]

Yes well, unfortunately acknowledgement of Indigenous Australian's comes across as 'completely manufactured' in Australia because as a collective nation it hasn't been done, or was done extremely poorly in the past.

Traditions don't exists in this realm because they weren't allowed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be encouraged going forward, as long as things are done for the right reasons then who really gives a shit if it feels manufactured, all traditions would have felt manufactured at some point or another.

 

[Adam84]

The Reds/Wallabies need to make sure they hold onto Daugunu until he’s Wallaby eligible. He’s the most electric winger in Australia, very impressed with his performance last night.

I would like to see him in 7's, as a reds fans that hurts to say, but could really be something amazing there. Last time he played 7's he had only just take up rugby.

 

[Show-n-go]

Yes well, unfortunately acknowledgement of Indigenous Australian's comes across as 'completely manufactured' in Australia because as a collective nation it hasn't been done, or was done extremely poorly in the past.

Traditions don't exists in this realm because they weren't allowed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be encouraged going forward, as long as things are done for the right reasons then who really gives a shit if it feels manufactured, all traditions would have felt manufactured at some point or another.

Kinda missed the point but glad you enjoyed it

 

[kiap]

I struggle with it because as far as I can tell, the idea of an aboriginal war dance is completely manufactured, I struggle to find any information about it on the internet prior to 2014 or so, I never learnt about it in school

Many such war dances did actually exist. e.g. At a location north of Menindee from Major Mitchell's Expedition into Australia in 1835:

As a peace-offering. I then presented the man who appeared to be their leader with a tomahawk, the use of which he immediately guessed by turning round to a log and chopping at it. Two other stout fellows (our morning visitor being one of them) then rudely demanded my pistols from my belt, whereupon I drew one curious to see the effect, and fired it at a tree.​

The scene which followed I cannot satisfactorily describe or represent, although I shall never forget it.​

As if they had previously suspected we were evil demons, and had at length a clear proof of it, they repeated with tenfold fury, accompanied with hideous shouts and demonic looks, crouching and jumping to a war song they set up, all their gestures of defiance; spitting, springing with the spear, and throwing dust at us, as they slowly retired.​

In short their hideous crouching, measured gestures, and low jumps, all to the tune of a wild song, and the fiendish glare of their countenance, appropriately black, and now all eyes and teeth, seemed a fitter spectacle for Pandemonium than the light of the bounteous sun.​

Thus these savages slowly retired along the river bank, all the while dancing in a circle, like the witches in Macbeth, and leaving us in the expectation of their return, and perhaps an attack in the morning.​

The Australian, Sydney. 8 January 1839. p.3.​

 

[wamberal]

The first tour by the Kangaroos featured a "war dance", and this was a feature of their games for 60 years, allegedly.



Then again, rugby league was always more accessible to, and accepting of, indigenous players than our game. Our history in this respect is pretty shameful, intentionally, or otherwise. Obviously economic reality came into it, poor kids could get paid in the other code.


My view would be, if the indigenous community is okay with any sort of recognition, jerseys, dances, welcomes to country, we should do it, gratefully and wholeheartedly.

 

[Derpus]

The first tour by the Kangaroos featured a "war dance", and this was a feature of their games for 60 years, allegedly.



Then again, rugby league was always more accessible to, and accepting of, indigenous players than our game. Our history in this respect is pretty shameful, intentionally, or otherwise. Obviously economic reality came into it, poor kids could get paid in the other code.


My view would be, if the indigenous community is okay with any sort of recognition, jerseys, dances, welcomes to country, we should do it, gratefully and wholeheartedly.

I agree. The All Blacks embraced their nations heritage to their distinct advantage. We should do the same.

 

[emuarse]

Thought that was a wonderful performance by Higgers for his 100 cap. Respect.

Congrats to Malolua on his first cap. Love seeing QPR experience having a knock.

Don't recall picking up on Luka, did he he cap?

I'm loving Blythe. Didn't matter even if it was going to shit he was going to enjoy himself and keep smacking in.

There remains a missing ingredient though for the Reds to start turning around these close games. Don't know what it is, they are close, but not there.

What were people's thoughts on the war dance? A touch too long perhaps but I think I liked it.

Developing extra strength as they turn into men next year.
Did I say they were a young team - no.

 

[emuarse]

From what has been posted, Kerevi is gone.

I think there is promise in the group of McDermott, Sorovi, Hegarty, Stewart, Petaia, CFS, Daugunu, Speight & Lucas but if they all play no better then the 2019 version of themselves, both individually & as a group then we will remain a level below most of the competition. Plus the standard of the next 3-4 players will be important.

IF Kerevi were to stay on for next year, my ideal back line would be:
15 Stewart
14 Speigh
13 Petaia
12 Kerevi
11 Campbell (his game keeps getting better
10 Lucas
9 McDermott

I see speed & cohesion there, with Hegarty the back up .

 

[Finsbury Girl]

I'm not happy but neither unhappy. We took the 2nd placed side very close, thought we would sneak in the end but for the interception!

Another one we let slip, and geez some of the errors at crucial times really killed us. I want Tate to fire up the forwards a bit more, they really needed to slow it down and get stuck in at the ruck, we lost that battle and unfortunately were on the back foot most of the game. Loved the spirit at times though, Thor counter rucking for example. It will come.

 

[wamberal]

The Jaguares 6 was immense in the first half.

 

[KOB1987]

The Jaguares 6 was immense in the first half.

Matera? He's a 7 in our language but yes he would make pretty much any international side at least on the bench

 

[Show-n-go]

Many such war dances did actually exist. e.g. At a location north of Menindee from Major Mitchell's Expedition into Australia in 1835:

As a peace-offering. I then presented the man who appeared to be their leader with a tomahawk, the use of which he immediately guessed by turning round to a log and chopping at it. Two other stout fellows (our morning visitor being one of them) then rudely demanded my pistols from my belt, whereupon I drew one curious to see the effect, and fired it at a tree.​

The scene which followed I cannot satisfactorily describe or represent, although I shall never forget it.​

As if they had previously suspected we were evil demons, and had at length a clear proof of it, they repeated with tenfold fury, accompanied with hideous shouts and demonic looks, crouching and jumping to a war song they set up, all their gestures of defiance; spitting, springing with the spear, and throwing dust at us, as they slowly retired.​

In short their hideous crouching, measured gestures, and low jumps, all to the tune of a wild song, and the fiendish glare of their countenance, appropriately black, and now all eyes and teeth, seemed a fitter spectacle for Pandemonium than the light of the bounteous sun.​

Thus these savages slowly retired along the river bank, all the while dancing in a circle, like the witches in Macbeth, and leaving us in the expectation of their return, and perhaps an attack in the morning.​

The Australian, Sydney. 8 January 1839. p.3.​

“The natives have not any war-dance, properly so called, though sometimes they are decorated in all the pomp and circumstance of war.” - An account of the manners and customs of the Aborigines, by Edward John Eyre 1845

Look I’m not interested in starting a debate over this, but quick google search makes it pretty inconclusive if we are being fair

I feel it’s fake, and a bit silly to have some group of performers “challenge” the opposition on the players account and the concept as a whole does literally zero for me because I don’t relate to it in the slightest

If you like it, that’s super dandy and great for you. Continue to enjoy the show

 

[RugbyReg]

Matera? He's a 7 in our language but yes he would make pretty much any international side at least on the bench

no. he came off the bench. Petti started at 6

 

[Forcefield]

“The natives have not any war-dance, properly so called, though sometimes they are decorated in all the pomp and circumstance of war.” - An account of the manners and customs of the Aborigines, by Edward John Eyre 1845

Look I’m not interested in starting a debate over this, but quick google search makes it pretty inconclusive if we are being fair

I feel it’s fake, and a bit silly to have some group of performers “challenge” the opposition on the players account and the concept as a whole does literally zero for me because I don’t relate to it in the slightest

If you like it, that’s super dandy and great for you. Continue to enjoy the show

Tricky thing is that even if a war dance could be historically dated, it would likely be specific to one particular Aboriginal group. If you invented one, I imagine it would be made in Sydney and probably inappropriate to use in other states or regions.

Welcome to country is understood and respected by all.

Personally, I'd like us to belt out a stadium wide rendition of We Are Australian. Reckon that'd get some spirit into things.

 

[Adam84]

“The natives have not any war-dance, properly so called, though sometimes they are decorated in all the pomp and circumstance of war.” - An account of the manners and customs of the Aborigines, by Edward John Eyre 1845

Look I’m not interested in starting a debate over this, but quick google search makes it pretty inconclusive if we are being fair

I feel it’s fake, and a bit silly to have some group of performers “challenge” the opposition on the players account and the concept as a whole does literally zero for me because I don’t relate to it in the slightest

If you like it, that’s super dandy and great for you. Continue to enjoy the show

It’s indigenous round mate.. it’s about reconciliation not about you enjoying the show. How about you consider the indigenous rugby players and supporters about what it does for them and factor that into the discussion.