Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Folau had a tough start, but got some shocking passes, pulled it together and will be better for the experience, Brendon did nothing wrong while not being outstanding.
RC5: Springbokke vs Wallabies @ PE
- Thread starter PaarlBok
- Start date
- Status
I see the result as a positive if it forces Raelene to sack Cheika and his staff. While I acknowledge the systemic issues in Australian Rugby there is enough talent in this side to have overcome Argentina and South Africa with some bread and butter improvement in defence and set piece, and better decisions with kicks for goal. Defence is unreliable, set piece is woeful and there is clearly on Plan B when Cheika-ball comes unstuck. I am also tired of Cheika's insane selections. Some quick suggestions selection wise:
1. Stop changing your locks - stick with Coleman and Arnold - and with regards to Arnold, work on his height and technique into the tackle. This is fixable and otherwise his game is pretty good. Look at the stability of the ABs with BR and SW - world class locks who have played together enough to form cohesion.
2. Scrap Beale at 10 - either move Matt T into 10 or get back Foley. Restrict Foley to ball running only, and maybe have one cross field kick to Folau (we know he can do it in Super Rugby). Move Beale to either 12 or back to the bench to cover 12 or 15
3. Move Hooper to the bench to be an impact player. Move Pocock to 7 and get a proper 8 in there. While we are waiting for Nasarini I am happy to try Tui or maybe even Timu as a stopgap until we identify the proper 8.
4. For 6 I am open to ideas. Not Ned H though.
5. Place kicks to be done by either Matt T or Hodge. No more Foley please
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
If this is one of your take away points from last nights match I think we’re entitled to ask if you actually watched it.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
That was not a game where we were outclassed in the 1 on 1 matchups.
It was a game where we were outplayed as a team.
Just dumb rugby.
Both tries against us were scored from complete amateur errors.
In what defensive structure do you line up your hooker against the flyhalf??
Can’t work out if it’s the players inability to execute the plan, or if it’s the plan itself.
Whichever it is it’s bloody hard to watch.
It was a game where we were outplayed as a team.
Just dumb rugby.
Both tries against us were scored from complete amateur errors.
In what defensive structure do you line up your hooker against the flyhalf??
Can’t work out if it’s the players inability to execute the plan, or if it’s the plan itself.
Whichever it is it’s bloody hard to watch.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
To start with I wouldn't have bothered to stay up or get up for this game, but a good dose of the man flu has seen me unable to lie down without coughing up a lung, so I found my self sitting through yet another abysmal Wallabies effort.
The real disappointing aspect of the Wallabies under Chieka, Larkham and Grey is the fact that the aggregate talents available to the team regardless of the odd selections and over arching ideology is far greater than what is produced. The structures that the team is playing under is so fundamentally flawed it is almost amateur. Then add in the ideology of headless chook one out running and mindless throw it wide on first phase even if it goes 15 metres behind the advantage line without committing a single defender means that even if the players had perfect skill execution of their limited skill sets they would be struggling for parity against any top 5 side.
So some observations:-
1) Beale - is not a 10. Has never been a 10. AT Joeys he was bigger and quicker than everyone else and bullied his way around, he is a brilliant individual player, but he is an individual, he doesn't set anybody up really but can continue plays created by others and offloads at times. He has been a professional player for how long now - 10 years? He still cannot pass left to right, except to provide an easy intercept on his own goal line (more about this later as I think he will be rightly lambasted for a "brain explosion" but if you look at the structures and how the line was set this is a coached system and the players were executing what they were taught.). What we saw last night from Beale at 10 is exactly what he brought to the position all those years ago when he played there for the Tahs under Dwyer. It is an indictment on the Australian system that he is no better and has not been required to be better. The only thing he has improved is his texting abilities.
2) Lineout - there is perhaps no more glaring aspect of the coaching failure than this. The attitude of lets do "our" thing and ignore the opposition regardless of relative strengths/weaknesses and actually using some brains to adapt to the opposition set up. The decision to twice throw to Hooper at 2 against Etzbeth was just silly. 0 for two throws, and not even close.
3) Defence - the coaching aspect and comments from players about effort and commitment are telling, and the effort is commendable in a very poor system. The requirement for players to constantly scramble in defence and hence their effort requirement is huge to cover for the defensive structure, as it was with the worse system last year, it ultimately fatiguing and will always fail at some point due to a poor read or a player unable to cover due to physical disparity in the scramble. The lack of top end pace in the Wallabies necessitates a structure that doesn't "give" the wings to the opposition and has effective sweepers. We do not see that and this makes players look worse than they possibly are (Koriobete).
4)Attack - there is an obvious ideology behind what the Wallabies are doing and they neglect all else to follow what is obviously a coaching directive and "structure". The ideology is throw it wide as fast as possible, not to a winger but to Hooper or Pocock on the wing. The fact that to achieve this they need to be standing 10-15 metre behind the gain line as the fast defence doesn't have to commit to anything through the middle makes it such a failure. It is only through some exceptional and fatiguing "effort" that the Wallabies can even maintain possession for the second part of Larkham's Macqueen Renaissance game plan. Then on the few occasions first phase is in centre field it is the static one out hit ups with recycle then return to part one despite rarely making the gain line. It is so completely pedestrian and lacking in any real rugby intelligence. Are the players that stupid or have the coaches lobotomised them with the "structure" they are required to execute? I favour the second part with a couple of exceptions who are perhaps not stupid, just complete individuals whose first thought is "I have to do this myself".
I do not think the coaching team has any idea of the actual problems causing the failures. They are listening to their own echo chamber and putting in an "independent" like Eales or Gregan who have proved to be great yes men of no integrity, genuine insight or honest comment on the ARU board and in Fox commentary will do nothing to address the issues. I have limited expectations from this entire generation of Wallabies, including those entering the set up now, simply because they are the fruit of a tree that is flawed in ways so well discussed. That said I do not accept that they cannot however perform better than what they are and the structures they are being told they must play are adequate at any professional level.
The real disappointing aspect of the Wallabies under Chieka, Larkham and Grey is the fact that the aggregate talents available to the team regardless of the odd selections and over arching ideology is far greater than what is produced. The structures that the team is playing under is so fundamentally flawed it is almost amateur. Then add in the ideology of headless chook one out running and mindless throw it wide on first phase even if it goes 15 metres behind the advantage line without committing a single defender means that even if the players had perfect skill execution of their limited skill sets they would be struggling for parity against any top 5 side.
So some observations:-
1) Beale - is not a 10. Has never been a 10. AT Joeys he was bigger and quicker than everyone else and bullied his way around, he is a brilliant individual player, but he is an individual, he doesn't set anybody up really but can continue plays created by others and offloads at times. He has been a professional player for how long now - 10 years? He still cannot pass left to right, except to provide an easy intercept on his own goal line (more about this later as I think he will be rightly lambasted for a "brain explosion" but if you look at the structures and how the line was set this is a coached system and the players were executing what they were taught.). What we saw last night from Beale at 10 is exactly what he brought to the position all those years ago when he played there for the Tahs under Dwyer. It is an indictment on the Australian system that he is no better and has not been required to be better. The only thing he has improved is his texting abilities.
2) Lineout - there is perhaps no more glaring aspect of the coaching failure than this. The attitude of lets do "our" thing and ignore the opposition regardless of relative strengths/weaknesses and actually using some brains to adapt to the opposition set up. The decision to twice throw to Hooper at 2 against Etzbeth was just silly. 0 for two throws, and not even close.
3) Defence - the coaching aspect and comments from players about effort and commitment are telling, and the effort is commendable in a very poor system. The requirement for players to constantly scramble in defence and hence their effort requirement is huge to cover for the defensive structure, as it was with the worse system last year, it ultimately fatiguing and will always fail at some point due to a poor read or a player unable to cover due to physical disparity in the scramble. The lack of top end pace in the Wallabies necessitates a structure that doesn't "give" the wings to the opposition and has effective sweepers. We do not see that and this makes players look worse than they possibly are (Koriobete).
4)Attack - there is an obvious ideology behind what the Wallabies are doing and they neglect all else to follow what is obviously a coaching directive and "structure". The ideology is throw it wide as fast as possible, not to a winger but to Hooper or Pocock on the wing. The fact that to achieve this they need to be standing 10-15 metre behind the gain line as the fast defence doesn't have to commit to anything through the middle makes it such a failure. It is only through some exceptional and fatiguing "effort" that the Wallabies can even maintain possession for the second part of Larkham's Macqueen Renaissance game plan. Then on the few occasions first phase is in centre field it is the static one out hit ups with recycle then return to part one despite rarely making the gain line. It is so completely pedestrian and lacking in any real rugby intelligence. Are the players that stupid or have the coaches lobotomised them with the "structure" they are required to execute? I favour the second part with a couple of exceptions who are perhaps not stupid, just complete individuals whose first thought is "I have to do this myself".
I do not think the coaching team has any idea of the actual problems causing the failures. They are listening to their own echo chamber and putting in an "independent" like Eales or Gregan who have proved to be great yes men of no integrity, genuine insight or honest comment on the ARU board and in Fox commentary will do nothing to address the issues. I have limited expectations from this entire generation of Wallabies, including those entering the set up now, simply because they are the fruit of a tree that is flawed in ways so well discussed. That said I do not accept that they cannot however perform better than what they are and the structures they are being told they must play are adequate at any professional level.
Cheika will stay. Unless he quits he’ll be there until the rwc. He’s on a million a year apparently and we can’t afford to pay that out.
Larkgam and / or Grey will go after this tour. I think Chek has already been told as much so Kafe etc will be looking at options now.
Larkgam and / or Grey will go after this tour. I think Chek has already been told as much so Kafe etc will be looking at options now.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
How long is it since Coles played a test? Can't rate him as one of the best if he isn't playing.
Folau and BPA will both improve with more experience. And they will look better against some other opposition I'll warrant. Stick with them for the dividends down the track. It would help if there was some proper coaching going on as well, but the evidence is that very little is being done with either the hookers or the jumpers. And wtf is Hooper doing jumping at 2 against Etsebeth when there are three so-called legitimate jumpers in the side. Can't say I recall Hanigan even taking one lineout.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Gnostic, you have nailed so many things that are wrong with the Wallabies at this time. I am more and more sure that the current bunch of players, with just a few changes, would benefit immensely by getting rid of the current coaches. It is really beholden on the RA, in the best interests of the players and the code itself, to get our national team away from the debilitating effects of Cheika et al.
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
Good keen go from Aus. Great atmosphere and intense match. That bok d was out of sight for 2nd week in a row. If bokke do that again vs NZ's NPC Pack+2 next weekedn the ab's are fucked
Beale casually chucking the entire team into the wood chipper after 23 seconds wasnt entirely beneficial to the cause...
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Another very disappointing effort by the Wallabies. Individually, you can see they all try, but collectively they are way behind the rest of the top nations in their approach to the game.
Pocock was again immense, and probably the only Wallaby who is playing consistently at world standard. Clearly, best player on the park. I will say it again, though, that he is playing like a No 7, not a No 8.
The poor performers include:
Izzy Folau, who is showing up on the wing as a one trick pony in that he is there to jump for the kick through by Beale or Foley or To'omua, whoever is the play maker at the time. Last night, he couldn't even do that one thing, and consequently he had nil impact on the game. Time for the sack.
Ned Hanigan, who made more metres backwards with ball in hand than forwards. Any positive he offers in the way of workrate is well and truly negated by his lack of robustness. Did he even take one lineout in the match, an area of supposed superior skill?
Adam Coleman and Izaac Rodda, as a combination they were very ineffectual. I don't think either of them made more than a metre over the gain line at any stage of the game. Very poor efforts in attack.
Michael Hooper, in his role as captain. He is just not inspirational, and makes too many questionable decision. His work otherwise would suit him to the bench to come on in the last 15 - 20 minutes of a game.
Nick Phipps, nothing to say because he offers nothing.
Kurtley Beale, far too often makes mind blowing decisions, but to serve up a try on a platter to the opposition after 30 seconds of play should see him marked as never again in the Wallabies.
There are some personnal changes that can be made for Argentina, but the same sad story will continue to unfold while Cheika/Grey/Larkham and the forwards coach keep their hands on the tiller.
Pocock was again immense, and probably the only Wallaby who is playing consistently at world standard. Clearly, best player on the park. I will say it again, though, that he is playing like a No 7, not a No 8.
The poor performers include:
Izzy Folau, who is showing up on the wing as a one trick pony in that he is there to jump for the kick through by Beale or Foley or To'omua, whoever is the play maker at the time. Last night, he couldn't even do that one thing, and consequently he had nil impact on the game. Time for the sack.
Ned Hanigan, who made more metres backwards with ball in hand than forwards. Any positive he offers in the way of workrate is well and truly negated by his lack of robustness. Did he even take one lineout in the match, an area of supposed superior skill?
Adam Coleman and Izaac Rodda, as a combination they were very ineffectual. I don't think either of them made more than a metre over the gain line at any stage of the game. Very poor efforts in attack.
Michael Hooper, in his role as captain. He is just not inspirational, and makes too many questionable decision. His work otherwise would suit him to the bench to come on in the last 15 - 20 minutes of a game.
Nick Phipps, nothing to say because he offers nothing.
Kurtley Beale, far too often makes mind blowing decisions, but to serve up a try on a platter to the opposition after 30 seconds of play should see him marked as never again in the Wallabies.
There are some personnal changes that can be made for Argentina, but the same sad story will continue to unfold while Cheika/Grey/Larkham and the forwards coach keep their hands on the tiller.
mst
Peter Johnson (47)
At some point I would like to see the financials on the payout option (save the game payment) v lost sponsorship, revenue, etc.
Or, the even simpler measure is of the Wallabies win anything in an empty stadium that seats 50, and it is being broadcast live on TVSN on 4am, is saving the million payout worth the over cost of the damage done to the game and brand by the end of the RWC?
Before you ask i would even be happy to go with Damian Hill as coach. He couldn't be worse.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Only 8 pages nearly 12h after a Wallaby match against one of our greatest rivals says it all. I didn’t even bother watching the replay let alone get up for it, a real sad state of affairs.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Every T1 side on planet Earth defends with their front row in the middle of the park during phase play. Hanigan's spacing was terrible (he shouldn't have been 2nd out from the ruck to begin with) and the effort from the hooker was just as bad.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Sure but not 1 on 1 with space.
It works when the channels are jammed with bodies.
When there’s room it just creates a defensive mismatch.
Mudslider
Allen Oxlade (6)
I’m speechless after Cheika’s choice 10 Beale & Captain Hopper first minute on the field... clearly disrespected the Boks coming off an ABs win and threw a Hail Mary pass between each other on their 15 m line... giving up an easy intercept try... Can someone remind Hopper is neither tall or a winger... and Beale hasn’t a long pass...
All this fresh out of the change rooms with coach Cheika, speaks volumes about the understanding of their relationship and their game management...
Yep it’s time... Cheika has to move on before the spring tour, some players will gave to take the bench or have a break...
Second half Wallabies had 79% of the territory and 60% of the ball and didn’t score single point...
All this fresh out of the change rooms with coach Cheika, speaks volumes about the understanding of their relationship and their game management...
Yep it’s time... Cheika has to move on before the spring tour, some players will gave to take the bench or have a break...
Second half Wallabies had 79% of the territory and 60% of the ball and didn’t score single point...
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Kafer is part of the problem and not part of the solution, zero achievements in the field of coaching. Larkham won't go part of the Canberra mafia and I suspect Kafer is boss of the Canberra mafia.
- Status