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RC4 - Australia v Argentina

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Bobby Sands

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Keiran Reid


Kieran Reid, one of the best tight merchants of backrow play in the world, if not the best, plays a looser game style than Michael Hooper?

You can't make this stuff up.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If Pocock plays in the tram tracks this weekend, I will be astounded.


Whatever the case, in attack one of our backrowers will be charged with controlling our attacking breakdown on the left edge and another on the right. Whether it is Pocock or Samu on one edge is uncertain as Samu has recently done that middle role (as number 8 last week) but it will quite obviously be one of them. Tui will be on the opposite edge.

The pod arrangements are pretty clear and obvious. The players involved in the respective pods has been mixed up depending on players (particularly who we consider our primary carrier in each of the three man pods).

Defence is clearly far less structured in general play outside of first phase and players move around far more depending on who gets stuck in rucks etc.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Agree, and to be more specific when I say it is not part of our structure that Hooper plays wide.

Hooper playing in wider channels might be something that Cheika is okay with but it is certainly not part of the backrow structure as a mandatory element. For example; Cheika will not be saying "okay we have lost our wide backline loose forward, we need to now replicate that playing style with the next man up" (in this case Samu).

Teams do not have set roles for positions that are this rigid, the playing style of the individual players make up most of the IP to work with and then the coach picks the best combinations from those skillsets. Hence the idiom, play to the game style that your cattle dictates.

Note: I agree with you almost entirely, I was just going into more detail by what I meant by "coaching directive." I don't disagree that Cheika is okay with Hooper being wider, but I certainly don't think it is part of his plan for backrow play.
How are you agreeing with someone that said Hooper only started playing wide under Cheika but simultaneously maintaining that the coach does nothing and it’s Hooper own inclination to play wide.
 
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Bobby Sands

Guest
How are you agreeing with someone that said Hooper only started playing wide under Cheika but simultaneously maintaining that the coach does nothing and it’s Hooper own inclination to play wide.

Its not complex.

It is his nature to do so, and Cheika must be okay with that. But my assertion is that it is not a directive of our play and I will be very surprised to see Samu or Pocock play in such wide channels.

Do you comprehend?
 
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Bobby Sands

Guest
I almost want us to lose now. I mean, i can take the name calling but the arrogance.


This attitude is a great example of cognitive bias and how it affects logic / decision making.

You would rather the team you support not achieve the desired outcome (to win) so that your logic is re-affirmed (?) rather than a new idea/process that you might not agree with produce the desired outcome.

You tell me which is the more successful/helpful attitude.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
This attitude is a great example of cognitive bias and how it affects logic / decision making.

You would rather the team you support not achieve the desired outcome (to win) so that your logic is re-affirmed (?) rather than a new idea/process that you might not agree with produce the desired outcome.

You tell me which is the more successful/helpful attitude.
It would be cognitive bias if i wasn't conscious of it.

More of a decision.

But no, it's not about the idea it's about you being arrogant about it. That's why i (almost) want the team to lose. Because i'd like you to have to eat your words after calling everyone on this forum an idiot after spouting inconsistent, pseudo-intellectual bullshit.
 
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Bobby Sands

Guest
Whatever the case, in attack one of our backrowers will be charged with controlling our attacking breakdown on the left edge and another on the right. Whether it is Pocock or Samu on one edge is uncertain as Samu has recently done that middle role (as number 8 last week) but it will quite obviously be one of them. Tui will be on the opposite edge.

The pod arrangements are pretty clear and obvious. The players involved in the respective pods has been mixed up depending on players (particularly who we consider our primary carrier in each of the three man pods).

Defence is clearly far less structured in general play outside of first phase and players move around far more depending on who gets stuck in rucks etc.

Agree.

In short I am saying that the pod structures will be based on the available players not a set mandate, and that neither Samu or Pocock will significant time in a wider channel.

Tui maybe, but he has a very limited role due to mobility. He is almost used like a rugby league backrower on the edge.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
In short I am saying that the pod structures will be based on the available players not a set mandate, and that neither Samu or Pocock will significant time in a wider channel.


If we play like we did against South Africa they might not have to because we really didn't spread the ball. Beale made 11 passes all game and To'omua made 4.

Against New Zealand we did spread the ball a lot and we end up with a lot of breakdowns in those wide channels.

If we do play in those wide channels it will be the prime responsibility of one or Samu and Pocock to control the breakdown on their edge (whoever gets that job). That's not to say they're going to spend all game out there but their job in general play attack is to be close enough that they will be the one that secures our breakdown if we get tackled out there.
 
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Bobby Sands

Guest
It would be cognitive bias if i wasn't conscious of it.

More of a decision.

But no, it's not about the idea it's about you being arrogant about it. That's why i (almost) want the team to lose. Because i'd like you to have to eat your words after calling everyone on this forum an idiot after spouting inconsistent, pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

Derpus to be clear, I don't think anyone of this forum is an idiot... Except for maybe you, and its only relative to rugby, you might be a genius at Soduko for all I know.

Fish can't climb trees etc.
 
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Bobby Sands

Guest
If we play like we did against South Africa they might not have to because we really didn't spread the ball. Beale made 11 passes all game and To'omua made 4.

Against New Zealand we did spread the ball a lot and we end up with a lot of breakdowns in those wide channels.

If we do play in those wide channels it will be the prime responsibility of one or Samu and Pocock to control the breakdown on their edge (whoever gets that job). That's not to say they're going to spend all game out there but their job in general play attack is to be close enough that they will be the one that secures our breakdown if we get tackled out there.

Okay, what about this. It is my prediction that Pocock and Samu will both play close to the breakdown all night regardless of whether that breakdown is in the middle or on the edges. They will also both do most of their ball-running close to the breakdown, and not in an outside back channel.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Okay, what about this. It is my prediction that Pocock and Samu will both play close to the breakdown all night regardless of whether that breakdown is in the middle or on the edges. They will also both do most of their ball-running close to the breakdown, and not in an outside back channel.


I disagree with this when we are in possession. It is two fold. One, we want them out in a wider channel so we can secure our own ball when we are out there (and have a good forward runner to work in with the backs).

The second one is so we don't enable the entire Argie back row to stay close to every breakdown all the time because they don't have to help cover a threat out wide because it is just backs on backs out there.

It's a somewhat different story in defence. They will look for jackalling opportunities when they arise.

Anyway, we'll see what happens.

I'm unsure why you think that it is good to have all our loose forwards hanging close to the breakdown in attack when they are key to exploiting opportunities in wider channels. We shouldn't need their pace to the breakdown in tight to secure our ball because our tight forwards can cover clean outs. Their ball running should be more dangerous out wider where they have a bit more room and can use their passing game.
 
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Bobby Sands

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I'm unsure why you think that it is good to have all our loose forwards hanging close to the breakdown in attack when they are key to exploiting opportunities in wider channels. We shouldn't need their pace to the breakdown in tight to secure our ball because our tight forwards can cover clean outs. Their ball running should be more dangerous out wider where they have a bit more room and can use their passing game.

I don't. Think of it like a French left and right flanker. That is how I suggest these two will play.

Obviously isolated forwards/backs in wider channels are excellent opportunities for turnovers.

But this is about being opportunistic and reading the play, not stationed on an outpost in the centres ala Mr Hooper.
 
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