RC4 - Australia v Argentina

[tragic]

Is this snark? Because it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to blame the Tahs players when there were only two in the starting side.

50% of them were shite though....
The roots of sarcasm often conceal a hint of truth

 

[K974]

Don’t agree rugby is a distant 4th in ireland, also a private school game
Financially the country is no where near here to invest in facilities etc,
The systems are broken
Nucifora was Part of fixing it in ireland ARU need him back ASAP

I think there is a reality issue here where rugby is the 4th choice football code in a country of 25 million people, with a developing culture of wrapping our kids in cotton wool. Rugby doesn’t have, and is never likely to have, a broad enough grass roots base to consistently produce top tier players or quality coaching staff. As an amateur code (and fledgling professional code) it was easier to mask this fact due to the overall standard of rugby being, well, amateur.

As a professional sport we are extremely unlikely to ever be able to consistently compete against larger nations (or NZ) where rugby has greater public support. Like most sports we play, we generally punch above our weight, but our historical standing as a top tier rugby nation is unlikely to continue as other nations continue to improve.

It speaks volumes to me that we have the two highest paid players in world rugby, yet are 7th in the rankings. That tells me that rugby is struggling desperately to paint a picture that australian rugby is a viable career for professional athletes, but in reality, only a select few will make a decent living out of it.

That said, I totally agree that the structure of RA has massive room for improvement which, if ever capably addressed, would help us get maximum value from the resources we have.


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[KOB1987]

So in your proposal to reboot everything, does Cheika survive?

Coaching is obviously a large part of the problem, but in your proposal to remove him who would be a better option?

They need to actually be a viable candidate and available. Aka the fictitious line bending worlds best #8 we need to select.


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[Dan54]

Who saw Chuckle's press conference? I believe the worst harshest criticism I have heard was to hear him say the Players not showing enough enthusiasm , which is tantamount to saying not trying hard enough!! That is a team with a problem if true!

 

[Lorenzo]

Coaching is obviously a large part of the problem, but in your proposal to remove him who would be a better option?

They need to actually be a viable candidate and available. Aka the fictitious line bending worlds best #8 we need to select.


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If the WC wasnt looming and we had money, how bad do things get before you resolve to fire the coach and appoint the best available applicant? If we slide to 9th? Win 30℅?

The thing is that this team shows no evidence of having a coach at all. They don't play smart rugby, there's no strategy or tactics bespoke for the opposition, the selections are random and the substitutions bizarre. There's no evidence if hustle, which means that MCs supposed motivational prowess is amounting to fuck all.

The new coach will quite possibly be a relatively unknown person, someone that has a demonstrated record of outperforming, given the resources they have available. Its not within the ability or resources of messageboard posters to identify that person. Thats fucking management and the board. Advertise the position and see who you get.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think there is a reality issue here where rugby is the 4th choice football code in a country of 25 million people, with a developing culture of wrapping our kids in cotton wool. Rugby doesn’t have, and is never likely to have, a broad enough grass roots base to consistently produce top tier players or quality coaching staff. As an amateur code (and fledgling professional code) it was easier to mask this fact due to the overall standard of rugby being, well, amateur.

As a professional sport we are extremely unlikely to ever be able to consistently compete against larger nations (or NZ) where rugby has greater public support. Like most sports we play, we generally punch above our weight, but our historical standing as a top tier rugby nation is unlikely to continue as other nations continue to improve.

It speaks volumes to me that we have the two highest paid players in world rugby, yet are 7th in the rankings. That tells me that rugby is struggling desperately to paint a picture that australian rugby is a viable career for professional athletes, but in reality, only a select few will make a decent living out of it.

That said, I totally agree that the structure of RA has massive room for improvement which, if ever capably addressed, would help us get maximum value from the resources we have.


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Rugby is the 4th most popular team sport in Ireland after soccer, gaelic football and hurling, with a smaller population but they seem to have worked things out?

 

[Quick Hands]

They have never had them to cut them away, all they did was cut the funding which I guess funding would be the only way to make them accountable for different things (I don’t agree to the cutting btw). The ARU essentially supplements the different entities financially but there is no controlling stake in the partnerships, which is the flaw in the model. Essentially they could pull the funding as we have seen with the court decision to withdraw the Force from Super Rugby and that’s about all they can do to influence how rugby is run in the different regions. This is why we need a change in the model, the organization that makes the money is handing money to other entities that supply the resources but there is little to no controlling stake in how these resources are produced, it’s essentially someone sticking their hand out, you giving them money but you have no control over what they spend it on, or more importantly how they spend it.

I want everyone to had their keys in and let one controlling body rule the roost. This is what happens in NZ, Ire and Scot. People have to suck in their pride and give up control, if they don’t think RA is that right body then another body needs to be created to execute this, you’ll still have your sub-entities but their appointments will be made through consultation with the overarching body, etc. In Ireland Munster and Leinster made the brave decision to hand most of their power to the IRFU for the benefit of all, we have seen how this has turned out

The Sydney Rugby Union were disaffiliated from the ARU about 3 years ago as reported on another thread at the time.

RA and their sychophantic state affiliates have largely lost connection to the grass roots which is the nub of the problem. Why would anyone want to hand over control to a bunch of corporate hacks who accuse them of pissing money up against a wall?

 

[Quick Hands]

How good was Aus's first try, sweeping cutting backline precision reminscent of Hawker, Slack and Ella in their pomp.

Second one from Folau was pretty much alltime too. Although not exactly a joyous Mardi Gras moment from him at the death there, l0ll, Izzy at the Mardi Gras.

Note that To'omua was first receiver in that play.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes, but I’d wager that Rugby isn’t the 4th choice football code in Ireland.


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Sorry mate, but it is. You would have lost your dough if you'd have followed through with the bet.

 

[Joe Blow]

Note that To'omua was first receiver in that play.

Why was To'omua pulled when Beale seemed to be the problem?
He looked genuinely surprised

 

[KOB1987]

If the WC wasnt looming and we had money, how bad do things get before you resolve to fire the coach and appoint the best available applicant? If we slide to 9th? Win 30℅?

The thing is that this team shows no evidence of having a coach at all. They don't play smart rugby, there's no strategy or tactics bespoke for the opposition, the selections are random and the substitutions bizarre. There's no evidence if hustle, which means that MCs supposed motivational prowess is amounting to fuck all.

The new coach will quite possibly be a relatively unknown person, someone that has a demonstrated record of outperforming, given the resources they have available. Its not within the ability or resources of messageboard posters to identify that person. Thats fucking management and the board. Advertise the position and see who you get.

I would actually have no problem with that approach. The problem the powers would have with it is that it’s going to cost a lot of money and they’d need to be absolutely sure the chosen one is going to yield an improvement in results.

Are the selections that random? The main areas of dispute are the 10-12 axis where we literally have no other options. Watch the NRC games if you don’t believe me. Putting To'omua at 10 is no less random.

Tho other area is the back row where we have stacks of talent but no big fuckers. Again, going with your preferred options is merely tinkering around the edges.


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[Joe Blow]

The whole Beale at 10 thing was pulled out of thin air a few weeks ago after a year of trying to manufacture a back up 10.

 

[Derpus]

OK, so which is more likely?

That in the last 3 years, 3 or 4 nations got their act together at the exact same time? I.e numerous independent events fell the same way during that period?

Or that we chose the wrong coach?

Evidence suggests that is in fact the case. Previous basket cases like Ireland and Scotland have actually improved dramatically. As have the Pumas.

 

[K974]

Sorry mate, but it is. You would have lost your dough if you'd have followed through with the bet.

A Distant 4th , with historical issues Meaning that a lot of people who play Gaelic sports don’t play rugby and same with soccer
Also The competing codes are not as transferable skills wise as union and league are here

 

[Rebels3]

The Sydney Rugby Union were disaffiliated from the ARU about 3 years ago as reported on another thread at the time.

RA and their sychophantic state affiliates have largely lost connection to the grass roots which is the nub of the problem. Why would anyone want to hand over control to a bunch of corporate hacks who accuse them of pissing money up against a wall?

The ARU have never had a controlling stake of the SRU. They simply supplied funds for a period of time, they have never had the ability to nominate who’s on the board, how the competition is run and how the clubs were set up. Now I think the aru should again supply funding so let’s get that straight. Those states you mentioned like the SRU also run their own ship. All entities from ARU, Nswru, sru etc. are equally at fault for the current state as they all only look after their owns needs, often at the expense of other areas, the whole system should be complementary of each other. It shouldn’t be an us vs them, that it clearly has now become. If the ARU/RA needs to be disbanded for the other parties to give up control, then I think we should all get onboard. We can’t have anymore situations where grassroots aren’t getting support they need but we also can’t have situations where grassroots doesn’t do what’s in the best interested of other competitions (Eg the first round NRC/grand final clash). Having each body independently looking after their own needs means that they will by in large look after their own needs.

 

[Derpus]

If the WC wasnt looming and we had money, how bad do things get before you resolve to fire the coach and appoint the best available applicant? If we slide to 9th? Win 30℅?

The thing is that this team shows no evidence of having a coach at all. They don't play smart rugby, there's no strategy or tactics bespoke for the opposition, the selections are random and the substitutions bizarre. There's no evidence if hustle, which means that MCs supposed motivational prowess is amounting to fuck all.

The new coach will quite possibly be a relatively unknown person, someone that has a demonstrated record of outperforming, given the resources they have available. Its not within the ability or resources of messageboard posters to identify that person. Thats fucking management and the board. Advertise the position and see who you get.

Lorenzo, the real problem, as highlighted by Augustin Pichot (World Rugby CEO) in stating that if something dramatic doesn't happen in the next 12 months International Test rugby will probably die, is that we are super duper fucking broke.

We cant afford to sack him. It's that simple. We have very little money and what little money we have is mismanaged (6 mil over 5 years for Hooper is looking increasingly ridiculous).

At this point i'm not too concerned about the week to week results i just want rugby to survive. It felt like a knife blow to the heart seeing how few people turned up to watch a test match last night. I love rugby and i don't want to see it go.

Changing coach would probably help but it won't save the game and we can't anyway. All the negative bullshit is helping nothing either. Attacking Tui, abusing the players? all the endless whinging and demands of perfection.

Fuck me, maybe we don't deserve rugby.

 

[Joe Blow]

We played some good rugby in the Irish series but have regressed since. On paper it’s a pretty strong squad. It has to come down to coaching/selections/direction.

 

[Lorenzo]

Evidence suggests that is in fact the case. Previous basket cases like Ireland and Scotland have actually improved dramatically. As have the Pumas.

And do you not give any credit to the national coaches and their assistants for those improvements? Or are they not responsible for the results there either?

If our coach is so hamstrung by the national structure and a lack of cattle, we could probably pay them less and give them shorter contracts.

 

[KOB1987]

Why was To'omua pulled when Beale seemed to be the problem?
He looked genuinely surprised

A lot of us queried this during the game. Reading between the lines - the priority was to get Foley out there to control the ship. Tick, no problem with that part. I think the plan was always to finish with 10. Foley, 12. Beale 15. Folau. Beale having a Barry forced his hand early. I think most agree though, it should have been Beale that was hooked, he was the one having a Barry, not To'omua. I think the commentators said To'omua had had 1 touch of the ball. That's probably why he looked surprised.

Combo's that haven't been tried this series:
10. Foley 12. To'omua
10. To'omua 12. Beale

Give them both a whirl I reckon.

 

[Quick Hands]

Why was To'omua pulled when Beale seemed to be the problem?
He looked genuinely surprised

If you find the answer, let us all know.