Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
Just saw that. Freddie Michalak seems to have avoided being cited for biffing Hogg.
RBS 6 Nations 2013
- Thread starter KevinO
- Start date
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Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
According to Sydney RU competition rules (player points cap bit), the following are Tier 1 Rugby nations (Italics is from SRU):
Tier 1 International Unions
Argentina (IRB Rank 8)
Australia (IRB Rank 3)
England (IRB Rank 4)
France (IRB Rank 6)
Ireland (IRB Rank 9)
Italy (IRB Rank 12)
New Zealand (IRB Rank 1)
Scotland (IRB Rank 10)
South Africa (IRB Rank 2)
Wales (IRB Rank 5)
Tier 2 Nations therefore appear to include:
Samoa (IRB Rank 7)
Tonga (IRB Rank 11)
Fiji (IRB Rank 13)
Canada (IRB Rank 14) + other IRB ranked Teams > 14.
Why is Samoa considered Tier 2, when their results confirm that they deserve a seat at the big table?
Their economy may not be worth much, most of their players may be playing overseas, they may have a very small population, they may not have many registered Senior players, and their international and domestic programme may run on the smell of an oily rag but doesn't it smack a bit of cultural imperialism that they are lumped into "Tier 2"?
Not many would argue with Tonga being considered Tier 2, along with the Teams ranked 13 or lower.
The comments about England being a Tier 2 Rugby nation may be slightly tongue in cheek, based on their recent performances: just scraped in at home against IRB 12th ranked team, and were thrashed by a rampant Welsh mob by a record margin at the Arms Park. When did they score their last try?
Tier 1 International Unions
Argentina (IRB Rank 8)
Australia (IRB Rank 3)
England (IRB Rank 4)
France (IRB Rank 6)
Ireland (IRB Rank 9)
Italy (IRB Rank 12)
New Zealand (IRB Rank 1)
Scotland (IRB Rank 10)
South Africa (IRB Rank 2)
Wales (IRB Rank 5)
Tier 2 Nations therefore appear to include:
Samoa (IRB Rank 7)
Tonga (IRB Rank 11)
Fiji (IRB Rank 13)
Canada (IRB Rank 14) + other IRB ranked Teams > 14.
Why is Samoa considered Tier 2, when their results confirm that they deserve a seat at the big table?
Their economy may not be worth much, most of their players may be playing overseas, they may have a very small population, they may not have many registered Senior players, and their international and domestic programme may run on the smell of an oily rag but doesn't it smack a bit of cultural imperialism that they are lumped into "Tier 2"?
Not many would argue with Tonga being considered Tier 2, along with the Teams ranked 13 or lower.
The comments about England being a Tier 2 Rugby nation may be slightly tongue in cheek, based on their recent performances: just scraped in at home against IRB 12th ranked team, and were thrashed by a rampant Welsh mob by a record margin at the Arms Park. When did they score their last try?
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
One of the major problems with the tier system is that it has little to do with world ranking leading to instances such as the one you've pointed out HJ.
In terms of Samoa's ranking in relation to them being a Tier 2 nation it doesn't make sense. I think where it does make sense is the fact that, in my view, Tier 2 nations are those nations where Rugby is an established sport but requires funding and other assistance from the IRB and the Tier 1 nations.
However I know that a few years ago the IRB introduced a different banding system that puts Samoa and other Tier 2 team into the same category as the established Tier 1 nations. This band is called High Performance and includes all the countries you've mentioned plus the likes of Romania, Japan, Georgia etc.
From the point of view of the IRB I believe that the Tier 1 is to make the distinction between those high performance teams that are included in either the 6Ns or the Rugby championship.
The other bands are Performance which includes countries like Portugal, Spain and Russia. These countries receive additional funding for development. Targeted is the next band which includes countries where the IRB would like to see the game take root and includes China, Germany & India. The remaining teams then fall into the Developmental band.
Looking at it from the IRB's perspective Samoa not being included in Tier 1 is not a slight on them, it's simply a reflection of the fact that they do not take part in either of the 2 premier annual international competitions. Should they be invited to join The Rugby Championship at some point in the future I'm sure they'll be moved to Tier 1 status.
In terms of Samoa's ranking in relation to them being a Tier 2 nation it doesn't make sense. I think where it does make sense is the fact that, in my view, Tier 2 nations are those nations where Rugby is an established sport but requires funding and other assistance from the IRB and the Tier 1 nations.
However I know that a few years ago the IRB introduced a different banding system that puts Samoa and other Tier 2 team into the same category as the established Tier 1 nations. This band is called High Performance and includes all the countries you've mentioned plus the likes of Romania, Japan, Georgia etc.
From the point of view of the IRB I believe that the Tier 1 is to make the distinction between those high performance teams that are included in either the 6Ns or the Rugby championship.
The other bands are Performance which includes countries like Portugal, Spain and Russia. These countries receive additional funding for development. Targeted is the next band which includes countries where the IRB would like to see the game take root and includes China, Germany & India. The remaining teams then fall into the Developmental band.
Looking at it from the IRB's perspective Samoa not being included in Tier 1 is not a slight on them, it's simply a reflection of the fact that they do not take part in either of the 2 premier annual international competitions. Should they be invited to join The Rugby Championship at some point in the future I'm sure they'll be moved to Tier 1 status.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Off topic, but that would be a salivating prospect.
One issue I can foresee is that with so many players overseas and at the mercy of their club paymasters, regardless of what the IRB says about releasing players, the top flight team is rarely made available outside of RWC's.
If the current situation continued, they would become the French of The Rugby Championship with the performance determined by whichever Manu Samoa turned up on the day based on what players had been released for International Duty.
The more International Duty release demands made on clubs, the less likely the clubs are to offer International grade Samoan's a contract reflecting their actual market value.
Stadia and facilities in Samoa may be an issue as well, although it may do some of the International players some good to play in the Islands in front of 10000 rabidly enthused and passionate Samoan supporters. This would remind them that they are playing a world game and what the "grass roots" really are.
Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
Leigh 1/2p wins Player of the 6N. It's basically a popularity poll, the public voting on a shortlist made up of all the TV commentator-awarded MOTM winners. They say 80,000 voted, 1/2p drew 40% of the vote, Zanni second with 11%. Picamoles nowhere.
Wales Fan
Alfred Walker (16)
Well deserved for Leigh Halfpenny too, dont think he was out of this world but consistently good in every game.
Apart from a few missed kicks in the first half against Scotland his all round game is pretty faultless. The only thing he lacks is maybe being more of a cutting edge in attack, although that's as much down to Wales' gameplan than a Halfpenny weakness.
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Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
Yes, I don't have any complaints about 1/2p winning. Very solid, consistent player. Certain Lions tourist, but probably a bench cover player.
Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
I think they'll go with Hogg at FB. 1/2d on the bench covering wing and FB.
Wales Fan
Alfred Walker (16)
I wouldn't disagree with that. Hogg could be sensational on the fast tracks in Australia.
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Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
And mighty dangerous if he seems more ball than he does with Scotland. Which wouldn't be hard.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Still not convinced by Hogg, a few interceptions and half decent performances against some seriously average teams isn't a superstar in the making. Reminds me a bit of Ugo Monye 4 years ago, a few impressive carries in open play, got championed into Lions selection and cost the Lions the first test by butchering 3 certain tries.
Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
Hard comparison to make, I think. Monye was always an overrated winger whose best attribute was chasing restarts. Besides, the FB pickings are slim. Kearney is still a long way from his best and Alex Goode isn't up to it.
the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
Joe Schmidt has been appointed the new Ireland coach. Pleased myself that we have appointed a foreign coach who cannot have the children throw accusations of provincial bias at him. He will have a tough start in the autumn against Samoa, Aus and NZ. Anyway, congratulations to him and the very best of luck!!!
the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
Do you mean Mackensie?
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
Yep, thought he would actually be a good option for Ireland. Not linked with any Irish team would have gave him the advantage. But once again Ireland go with the safe option.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
What is the future looking like for Les Kiss?
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