Quade telling it how it is

[randalf8]

This is what is starting to turn me off of the game. Not perceived poor performances or perceived bad behaviour. But big mouthed fans & the vilification of the players/coaches they don't like. It's farking hilarious the amount of armchair experts that could do things better.

It's the fucking results. If the backline was turning in quality performances after quality performance very few people would care if these three were going on 4 day coke and hooker benders between matches.

The fans have a problem with the rock star attitudes of players that look 6 shades of shit on the paddock and a coach that doesn't know his arse from his elbow when it comes to coaching on this side of the ditch.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are you just disagreeing with people for the sake of it now? Plane leaves Sydney at 10am for around 13 hour trip to JoBurg.

Do you really want to force yourself to stay awake, get there at what would be about 11pm Australian time but 3pm local and then have another 7-8 hours before bed? And that would probably be after waking up around 5am Bris time to get to the Airport and down Sydney?

Rather than going for a stint of 26 hours awake, I'd be shooting for 8 hours sleep on the long haul plane myself.

Now we're arguing about fucking jet lag prevention strategies?

oh yeah, the only plausible explanation for ioane and beale being out with cooper at 2am is that they've been advised by an expert in timezone management to do so

Don't you guys know anything about preventing jetlag?

David Boon knew what was going on. If you drink 52 tinnies on the flight, you completely avoid jetlag. For a flight to Jo'burg you probably only need to drink 26 or so. Let's even round it down to a case.

Drink 24 beers on the flight and you'll have such an horrendous hangover, you won't even be able to recognise the symptoms of jetlag. By the time you've recovered from the hangover, any jetlag you may have had will be completely gone.

Who are these so called timezone experts the Wallabies are talking to? They clearly know nothing.

 

[I like to watch]

Interesting article from Tim Horan, says offer on the table for same value as last contract.So it's hard to imagine QC (Quade Cooper) is upset with negotiations...if he's right.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...se-a-little-work/story-fn8ouyfq-1226482077495

 

[fatprop]

Interesting article from Tim Horan, says offer on the table for same value as last contract.So it's hard to imagine QC (Quade Cooper) is upset with negotiations.if he's right.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...se-a-little-work/story-fn8ouyfq-1226482077495

good balanced piece, I especially liked the insight

Quade has to realise he can't always play for the Wallabies like he does for Queensland.
I played in a Wallabies team many years ago when the Brumbies were playing an excellent attacking brand of rugby and had up to eight guys in the team. We tried to play the Brumbies' style and it didn't work in a Test match environment. We lost.
You have to adapt your expectations on how you attack, and that's something Quade has struggled to come to grips with at Test level.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm glad that Horan is saying this.

Too much of the criticism of the Wallabies play comes back to them throwing the ball around and playing more attacking rugby.

We should be expecting the Wallabies to execute their skills better and make better decisions but expecting them to throw the ball around like it is club or Super Rugby is just creating a false expectation that that style of play can routinely work in international rugby.

 

[randalf8]

Test rugby is really about defence and kicking (both positional and for goal).

All this "ball in hand" and "running rugby" shit is league's influence on the game and its fans.

 

[wamberal]

Test rugby is really about defence and kicking (both positional and for goal).

All this "ball in hand" and "running rugby" shit is league's influence on the game and its fans.

Wow. What an insight. Maybe we can go back to the good old days, kicking the ball out on the full from anywhere on the field, goals from a mark, pockets in the shorts. That'll bring the crowds back!!!


William Webb Ellis picked the ball up and (gasp) ran with the bloody thing. He did not kick it.

 

[randalf8]

Wow. What an insight. Maybe we can go back to the good old days, kicking the ball out on the full from anywhere on the field, goals from a mark, pockets in the shorts. That'll bring the crowds back!!!


William Webb Ellis picked the ball up and (gasp) ran with the bloody thing. He did not kick it.

Winning will bring the crowds back. Playing basketball in our own half that leads to the other side scoring more points than us will not.

And if you want to go back that far, it's worth noting that tries *weren't worth anything other than a shot at goal* until the 1880s, a full decade after Ellis' death.

 

[boyo]

I've had enough. The attitude of some of the people on this forum shits me.
This is not a Qld v NSW thing, it is a Wallaby thing: the performances, the players, the coaching staff, etc.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Interesting article from Tim Horan, says offer on the table for same value as last contract.So it's hard to imagine QC (Quade Cooper) is upset with negotiations.if he's right.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...se-a-little-work/story-fn8ouyfq-1226482077495

Hmmm.
My view of QC (Quade Cooper) is well known to anyone who can be bothered to read my posts.
However, while I think that Horan's on field analysis is spot on and reflects a lot of what underlies the sentiments on here (you cannot play s. 15 style rugby in tests - usually), paying a bloke the same this year as last is, in real terms, a reduction in salary.
If you're going to reduce a blokes salary I think you you need to consider all of the messages that sends.
I can understand why this would piss QC (Quade Cooper) off - its a slap in the face: possibly deliberately so.
I'm not sure its entirely fair to suggest that QC (Quade Cooper)'s value has declined since RWC 2011 - it might have if we had been able to keep anyone healthy long enough to threaten his selection.
If the ARU think that QC (Quade Cooper)'s not worth as much now as he was then (and they're not just trying to teach him or Khoder Nasser a lesson about 1 year contracts) why wouldn't they sit down and work out some incentives which if he hit them would see him being paid 5 or 10% more - which in our present low inflationary environment would be fair enough.
The incentives could address both on and off field performance - though measuring those performances would require a little engenuity.
I assume that the coach has not direct say in $$$ but is probably asked to rate the players 1 to 32 in terms of their importance to the Wallaby's medium term goals - however one determines what they are.

 

[waratahjesus]

Considering that contracts have been cut across the board, offering Quade the same amount as he got last year is actually beyond what has been offered to others. If he doesn't want what's in offer that's fine, he doesn't have to take it. He can go elsewhere its his choice.

 

[What2040]

Considering that contracts have been cut across the board, offering Quade the same amount as he got last year is actually beyond what has been offered to others. If he doesn't want what's in offer that's fine, he doesn't have to take it. He can go elsewhere its his choice.

Agree - the bloke's value as a player has reduced purley based on performance - he hasn't dominated or even played well in most games since the RWC and since recovery. An employer will increase worth if player is indispensible - QC (Quade Cooper) is not that.

 

[Lee Enfield]

I don't think it is about the money. I think he is genuinely disillusioned with the direction that Rugby in Australia is taking. His heart was in the right place, his head wasn't.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Considering that contracts have been cut across the board, offering Quade the same amount as he got last year is actually beyond what has been offered to others. If he doesn't want what's in offer that's fine, he doesn't have to take it. He can go elsewhere its his choice.

i didnt know that - did JON take a pay cut?

Agree - the bloke's value as a player has reduced purley based on performance - he hasn't dominated or even played well in most games since the RWC and since recovery. An employer will increase worth if player is indispensible - QC (Quade Cooper) is not that.

But if you treat players like that then all they'll ever do is sign 1 year contracts and then carry on like good sorts every year when renewal is due.
While there is room for the view that this is a business its not much like any other business: most companies don't have to worry about the roller coaster nature of long term injuries. There needs to be a little more love between the ARU and the players - they're not just cattle.

 

[cyclopath]

Agree - the bloke's value as a player has reduced purley based on performance - he hasn't dominated or even played well in most games since the RWC and since recovery. An employer will increase worth if player is indispensible - QC (Quade Cooper) is not that.

He is a victim of timing and circumstances, to a point. Aus had a poor RWC, he personally had a poor RWC pretty much except for the first half of the match in which he dorked his knee. He has not come back in anywhere near the same form as he carried through the triumphant 2011 Super 15 for the Reds. This coincides with contract re-negotiation time.
Simple equation, really, but a bit unlucky for Cooper.
I hope he re-signs with the ARU, and common sense is found between him and Khoder Nasser as to his current value.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I don't think it is about the money. I think he is genuinely disillusioned with the direction that Rugby in Australia is taking. His heart was in the right place, his head wasn't.

I think it is all about the money.


His manager will get a million in Japan plus the same again in Europe or league. JON is offering 750K.


I think the underlying message is that playing for your country is worth a financial sacrifice, but not if you're not enjoying your rugby.


Also he is not judging his value on his present form as he is still recovering from a serious knee injury. His best football is still ahead of him. Hopefully in the green and gold.

 

[Gagger]

We need to lift the tone.

Sensible discussion is fine, but constant belly aching about any one person or issue gets stale. The mods will be stepping in from here.

 

[I like to watch]

It's his timing.How many other Wobblie's are signed to 1 year contracts.
He is hardly a victim, he has been offered the same rates as last year apparently.
He backed himself, the year couldn't have gone worse for him and he gets the same deal.
That's a great result if you ask me.

 

[Dam0]

However, while I think that Horan's on field analysis is spot on and reflects a lot of what underlies the sentiments on here (you cannot play s. 15 style rugby in tests - usually), paying a bloke the same this year as last is, in real terms, a reduction in salary.
If you're going to reduce a blokes salary I think you you need to consider all of the messages that sends.
I can understand why this would piss QC (Quade Cooper) off - its a slap in the face: possibly deliberately so.
I'm not sure its entirely fair to suggest that QC (Quade Cooper)'s value has declined since RWC 2011 - it might have if we had been able to keep anyone healthy long enough to threaten his selection.
If the ARU think that QC (Quade Cooper)'s not worth as much now as he was then (and they're not just trying to teach him or Khoder Nasser a lesson about 1 year contracts) why wouldn't they sit down and work out some incentives which if he hit them would see him being paid 5 or 10% more - which in our present low inflationary environment would be fair enough.
The incentives could address both on and off field performance - though measuring those performances would require a little engenuity.
I assume that the coach has not direct say in $$$ but is probably asked to rate the players 1 to 32 in terms of their importance to the Wallaby's medium term goals - however one determines what they are.

Normally I agree with you on these sorts of things but I can't say I share your views here. I think QC (Quade Cooper)'s value to the ARU has dimished markedly since the last negotiation phase, and on just about every level.

* His form has been worse, and he has shown on numerous occasions that he can't handle pressure, to the point where it is not a certainty that he should even be in the Wallaby team at all.
* He has been through a serious injury, one that apparently is still giving him grief, and there is a greater possibility he will be injury prone compared to the last negotiation.
* He has done and said some things which have caused the public to not like him, which potentially reduces his ability to draw crowds and earn revenue for the ARU.


To be perfectly honest I reckon, if he is offered a salary even approaching the amount he got last year he should take it; or he should take the easy money on offer in Japan or possibly the UK/France (although I'm not sure he would command a massive salary there). If the reports are true that he is being offered the same amount as last year I'm not sure who is crazier - the ARU for offering it, or Quade for not being delighted.

 

[waratahjesus]

Inside shoulder - JON took a cut a year or so back, but signed for a few years on that deal.