Quade Cooper's defence this year

[Braveheart81]

I just can't see us making many changes after beating Wales 3-0.

The selectors will be very keen for consistency so I think it will be really tough for Cooper to break into the side at the start of TRC and I also don't see Cooper being brought in at 10, Barnes to 12, and McCabe to 13. It's just too many changes.

 

[Scoey]

I would rather see consitency in the team as well. There are a couple of selections I don't like but I think if we can keep the same team together we stand a much better chance than we do by fiddling with the team too much.

 

[emuarse]

I find it interesting that most people are saying we put him back into the gold jersey because his defence has improved. IIRC, most people weren't that critical of his defence in the WC. It was his decision making and execution.

The way I saw it, it was his coaching staff for the WC that effected his game. They didnt give him the flexability to make his own moves until the Welsh game for the bronze medal

 

[Ash]

It's a tough one because how will we ever know if he's improved in test matches? His Super rugby form has always been good. The WC was a disaster by him, I can think of 3 crucial errors in 3 very important games he made that are just unacceptable. The intercept against Ireland, the cross-field kick against SA in our half and the kick off to start the semi going out on the full. The latter one basically cost us the match that day if you think about it.

You have to be kidding. Blaming that loss on the kick off going out on the full? That's one of the sillier things I've read recently, and there's mudskipper to compete with. Actually, Quade was, sadly, one our better players on the park that day. If I recall correctly, his only other error in the game was a knock on early on. Other than that he played well behind a beaten pack.

The intercept in the Ireland game (if you are referring to the one about 5m from their line) was hardly crucial either, we were chasing the game well before then and our forwards had been utterly smashed. It was a poor decision, but to say it was crucial for the match is, again, silly. I don't see how you can blame just one back for that loss when the forwards are smashed so badly at ruck time and in the scrum.

There's no denying Quade wasn't that good in the WC, but to give that as the reason not to select an inform player is stretching it. If having some bad WC performances meant that you shouldn't get selected again, then Vickerman never would've never made the team again after 2007.

 

[qwerty51]

Cooper was so bad in the quarter final a lot of people questioned whether he was match fixing.

 

[Ash]

Did I mention the quarter final in my post?

And who were the people questioning whether he was match fixing?

I don't deny Quade's WC was very disappointing and he didn't play well in a few games, but it was hardly the disaster it is commonly referred to as being. The biggest thing was that it was so well down on expectations, as opposed to being truly awful.

Indeed, as I mentioned, he did put in a few good performances as well as bad performances, the ABs semi being one example of the former.

 

[Ulrich]

As a saffa I too have noticed an improvement in his game. Too bad Cooper's attitude still irritates the crap out of me and everyone not Australian. Perhaps that's to his advantage though.

 

[Scoey]

As a saffa I too have noticed an improvement in his game. Too bad Cooper's attitude still irritates the crap out of me and everyone not Australian. Perhaps that's to his advantage though.

What is this "attitude" that you speak of?

 

[Ulrich]

What is this "attitude" that you speak of?

His over-zealous celebrations, his dunking of McCaw's face and kneeing him when he was down like some coward... then when the going gets tough he cowers like a little baby.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I know how you feel Schadenfreude, sometimes you just have to keep your criticism brief and to the point!

Except this time you're wrong. Coper was paaaaants during the RWC and I would have dropped him for his defence at various points. I'm not interested in getting inside his head, I'd just say to him - your attack is superb but your tackling is fucking up the whole shape of our defence. You're on the bench until it's sorted out.

Except the "Crap" comment didn't mention defence, it was nitpicking on things that didn't turn out perfectly.

 

[gel]

Cooper was so bad in the quarter final a lot of people questioned whether he was match fixing.

First I heard of that. Where was that reported?

 

[Scoey]

His over-zealous celebrations, his dunking of McCaw's face and kneeing him when he was down like some coward. then when the going gets tough he cowers like a little baby.

Riiiight. The McCaw thing was 2 years ago! And I will assume that you, along with "everyone not Australian" didn't see the punch in the face he wore a few minutes before that. So we won't go there.

But pleeeeeease show me some footage of him cowering like a baby when the going's tough!

Over zealous celebrations? I'll cop that. But then again most backs (and plenty of forwards) are guilty of that from time to time.

 

[TOCC]

His over-zealous celebrations, his dunking of McCaw's face and kneeing him when he was down like some coward. then when the going gets tough he cowers like a little baby.

haha some people read the newspapers too much

 

[Ulrich]

Actually I find that whenever someone runs at Cooper he stands off, or used to at least, waiting for one of his flanks to make the hit before he cautiously committs or he'd ignore his duties by standing away which to me is cowering (granted, his defence has improved). Whether he did something two years ago or not doesn't change the fact that his attitude stinks. I'd concede that maybe it's not "everyone not Australian" that feels this way about him though.

 

[Scoey]

The fact something was two years ago changes a lot. People change and Quade has changed considerably in the last two years, as do most young blokes in their very early twenties.

He also hasn't played much footy since the RWC and the whole point of this thread was to discuss how his defence has improved. Namely his new found eagerness to defend up in the line and make the first hit when required. This is what got my back up. He has worked considerably to improve his game and anyone who has seen the limited footy he has played this year would agree, there is a marked difference. If you only listened to the media you may still hold a differing opinion.

 

[Swat]

Quade Cooper clearly had a bad RWC but Genia was also well below his best.

Cooper is a bit of a magnet for the blame because of his actions but Genia was every bit as average at the RWC.

The fact is that when our best players don't play well, we're always going to struggle.

I'd love to see Cooper's defence improve. I think the only way forward for him is to defend at 10 full time if he wants to be the Wallaby 10 again. It's too much of a compromise to shift our backline around to hide a poor defender.

I figure at this stage, Cooper will be part of the Wallabies squad and maybe sneak into the 22, but the only way he will take the 10 jersey at the start of TRC is if he leads the Reds all the way to the final. Barnes played too well against Wales to be ditched without Cooper doing something remarkable.

Truth be told if the team were picked on form Burgess should have been starting in the RWC...

 

[Scoey]

Truth be told if the team were picked on form Burgess should have been starting in the RWC.

Over Genia, that had just won the S15 and 3N? Surely you jest!

 

[Braveheart81]

Genia was excellent in the 3N but poor at the RWC. In my opinion it was one of the big reasons why we struggled.

We went from the 3N where our best players were pretty much Cooper, Genia, Pocock and Moore to the RWC where Cooper and Genia struggled for form and Moore and Pocock both struggled with injuries and missed some games.

These guys have been so crucial to the team that it becomes very difficult when they don't perform or are injured.

Whilst Genia was always the first choice scrumhalf, the fact that Burgess added to the team when he came on (for the few minutes he was given), shows how far off his best form Genia was.

 

[Scotty]

I just can't see us making many changes after beating Wales 3-0.

The selectors will be very keen for consistency so I think it will be really tough for Cooper to break into the side at the start of TRC and I also don't see Cooper being brought in at 10, Barnes to 12, and McCabe to 13. It's just too many changes.

Fair enough - might be what Robbie does, but what do you think should happen?

What gives us the best chance of winning - keeping the same team that scraped past the welsh or trying to improve it for the tougher test of the boks and all blacks.

 

[Ulrich]

The fact something was two years ago changes a lot. People change and Quade has changed considerably in the last two years, as do most young blokes in their very early twenties.

He also hasn't played much footy since the RWC and the whole point of this thread was to discuss how his defence has improved. Namely his new found eagerness to defend up in the line and make the first hit when required. This is what got my back up. He has worked considerably to improve his game and anyone who has seen the limited footy he has played this year would agree, there is a marked difference. If you only listened to the media you may still hold a differing opinion.

I never disputed that he has improved this season, perhaps his attitude has changed, if so, good on him. Yet last year he was sort of taunting folks in NZ so forgive me if I'm sceptical.