JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Easily hey?
QLD Premier Rugby 2025
- Thread starter Coleman Rees
- Start date
The Whisperer
Alfred Walker (16)
Well considering they already have 2 Subbies team, a Colts 4 team and a women’s team, they already have the required teams, it would then be a matter of recruiting higher quality coaches and players to add to this to make them competitive.
I mean easily by essentially not starting from scratch.
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
Whipping up a 1st grade standard team is pretty hard. Even with those established teams and club etc. it really is like starting from scratch when you want to attract genuine 1st graders.
Yeah both Caboolture and Wynnum have the same set up regarding teams and player base. So the bones of a qpr club.
Caboolture is probably in a better position in regard to facilities and location being the Sunshine Coast region. I assume Easts wouldn’t be too interested in Wynnum becoming a QPR club.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
This is incredibly difficult to do, and very different from say, a professional team expansion. I love the idea of expanding but I think the practicalities need to be explored more, even in hypotheticals.
What would be the incentive - beyond location - for players and coaches of that ilk to come to an expansion team?
I also think the demand or pool of players from the Sunshine Coast that could fill a team is overstated. In any given year there are probably around 10 players from both the schools and club competitions that have both the talent and want, to play premier rugby. Sunshine Coast A Grade is probably the highest standard of non-QPR rugby we have in QLD, and a lot of the players in that comp have come from a Premier Grade environment and are choosing to play up there for the lifestyle / easier competition / less training / mates etc etc. I don't see them rushing back to QPR in a hurry
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noknowledgeatall
Herbert Moran (7)
Less travel in the Brisbane shitshow traffic if you live and work in that area.
Local tribalism - play from juniors to seniors if you want to.
Another location to show your skills if you cant crack first grade at current club - Plenty of blokes stuck in 2nd Grade but 1st Grade standard.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Those guys could probably get a run in existing first grade programs if they really wanted to. Nothing stopping the guys in 2s at Brothers from going to play at Norths now for example. The standards drop off between 1st-3rd grade at some clubs is stark compared to others - tells me that guys aren't necessarily "stuck" but rather wanting to play for a particular club.
noknowledgeatall
Herbert Moran (7)
Playing at a particular club is all about the culture or "vibe" of a place and I can understand why some stay.
On some basic numbers each year in Brisbane (SEQ)
9 GPS schools, 9 AIC and many others
Say 20 schools with 1st 15 Programs x 20 players = 400 people of higher skill / standard
Double or triple it for 2nd XV and 3rd XV = circa 1000 lads capable of playing the game
Some go off to other state/countries or Bush so expect say 700 bodies available to go into colts programs (plus those that arrive from outside the local school programs)
Currently QPR has 9 clubs with average 3 Colts teams = 675 spots to fill
As this is a 2 year age group ie U 20 there is in effect only 330 spots for 700 people to fit into.
And I haven't included those stalwarts of every school / club Fighting 4ths, Filthy 5ths and Sexy 6ths
No wonder plenty say F&^K it and don't even keep engaged with the game.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
I don't know for sure but my guess is this is a big assumption that there are 700 new kids wanting to play rugby every year ("new" as in new to QPR ecosystem).
Again - I think the "demand" is overstated, massively. If there was spillage into other grades/ clubs you'd probably see other evidence like 2s being much stronger/ hotly contested, subbies being strong as opposed to contracting YoY.
Then there is also the obvious question - if it was such a good idea, why hasn't it happened yet? Got to be reasons.
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
I think the unfortunate reality for rugby in 2024 and potentially beyond is the depth simply isn't there at every club. Part of the reason is because of those school teams you mention in a later post, we've now got legitimate league and AFL threats who are attracting a lot of rugby talent who then don't shoot off to a club.
Also take into consideration that most clubs these days take a fresh bench, or at least half a fresh bench in 1st grade and potentially Premier Colts.
If a player isn't good enough to be in or around that top 23 players, they likely aren't actually at that level.
The Whisperer
Alfred Walker (16)
I think the issue is potentially the structure of it all.
Some clubs have 5 colts teams, others 2
Some clubs have 8 grades teams, others 3
Some clubs have 2 women’s teams, others barely 1
I think rugby league had it done the best and this is my proposal if we wanted to expand in the future.
Each QPR club is only allowed the following teams:
1st Grade
2nd Grade
Colts 1
Womens
Then you incorporate the Subbies clubs as “feeder clubs”. Would be up to each QPR club to find their own feeder teams. Players who don’t make 2nd grade, colts or women’s then go back and play for the feeder club with movement each week.
yes you lose tribalism if those players who don’t care what team they are in, they just want to play but tough. This would strengthen all these clubs as people would have to move for opportunity.
Example Potential Feeder clubs:
Wynnum- Easts
Caboolture- Norths
Brisbane Irish- Brothers
Logan- Sunnybank
Ipswich/Goodna- Wests
Kenmore- UQ
This could then bring in more junior’s clubs to become Senior Subbies clubs like North Lakes, Albany Creek, Everton Park, Pine Rivers, etc
Some clubs have 5 colts teams, others 2
Some clubs have 8 grades teams, others 3
Some clubs have 2 women’s teams, others barely 1
I think rugby league had it done the best and this is my proposal if we wanted to expand in the future.
Each QPR club is only allowed the following teams:
1st Grade
2nd Grade
Colts 1
Womens
Then you incorporate the Subbies clubs as “feeder clubs”. Would be up to each QPR club to find their own feeder teams. Players who don’t make 2nd grade, colts or women’s then go back and play for the feeder club with movement each week.
yes you lose tribalism if those players who don’t care what team they are in, they just want to play but tough. This would strengthen all these clubs as people would have to move for opportunity.
Example Potential Feeder clubs:
Wynnum- Easts
Caboolture- Norths
Brisbane Irish- Brothers
Logan- Sunnybank
Ipswich/Goodna- Wests
Kenmore- UQ
This could then bring in more junior’s clubs to become Senior Subbies clubs like North Lakes, Albany Creek, Everton Park, Pine Rivers, etc
noknowledgeatall
Herbert Moran (7)
Yet League and AFL continue to grow to record numbers.
Go figure
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
That is how rugby clubs work in a lot of Northern Hemisphere countries from what I understand, with the difference being the 1st grade sides are usually a standalone professional side with an accompanying Colts age team.
I've had mates and former players I've coached leave here to play in the UK and they end up playing 2nd/3rd grade for a particular club. If they aren't good enough to consistently make that team, they have to leave the club and go elsewhere if they want to keep playing at that level because there isn't anything beneath them.
It would be a huge change from what we do here though.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
You're then getting into dangerous areas where you're starting to tell people where they can and can't play amateur rugby. Not sure when the Shute Shield adopted their structure (4 grades, 3 colts) but they've always had a strong subbies competition (even if its not as strong as it once was - relative to anything else it's still massive) so I understand that it can work in theory - but again I feel there are a lot more macro factors at play that influence success. We'd be challenging an incredibly well established status quo.
You'd also see a lot of push back from clubs who have a massive membership base (which brings money) if you were suddenly forcing them to reduce the number of teams they were allowed to have. Players would very likely just stop playing all together rather than go play at the new club.
A lot of these other competition structures work because they've been in place for a while, and while these different structures being thrown up as hypotheticals may be better in the long run (also may not be) - club rugby in Brisbane would take a huge step backwards for a number of years in the interim period. I don't see the how the benefit of getting a new 1st grade team outweighs the substantive risk involved, which is ultimately what any decision would be determined on
The Shute Shield model should be looked at.
Grades 1-4
Colts 1-3
Womens
Maybe reduce it down to Grades 1-3
Clubs like Brothers, UQ, Wests, Easts having Colts 4A and 4B, 5th & 6th Grade is pointless.
But another hurdle is QRU Board, they don't seem to be interested in expansion.
Grades 1-4
Colts 1-3
Womens
Maybe reduce it down to Grades 1-3
Clubs like Brothers, UQ, Wests, Easts having Colts 4A and 4B, 5th & 6th Grade is pointless.
But another hurdle is QRU Board, they don't seem to be interested in expansion.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
How would you go about recruiting Hospital Cup standard players to Caboolture?
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
I really don't think the QRU Board is a hurdle. It's in their interest to increase playing numbers and playing standards across club rugby. It's more likely that the idea a nice thought but unlikely to succeed in reality.
QRU also operates under a membership model. I don't know for sure - but I imagine that each of the QPR clubs form 9 of those 27 members so they probably have their own say?
Interested Viewer
Frank Nicholson (4)
Caboolture or North Lakes would draw from Albany Creek big junior club and further out and guys from the bottom end of the sunny coast could commute.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Why isn't Norths stronger if there is a big northern catchment for them already? Do the Sunny Coast players want to commute - what real evidence is there to suggest that there is demand?
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
Aren't there several Brisbane clubs already significantly closer to Albany creek than Caboolture would be?