Qld Premier Rugby 2022

[PhilClinton]

I know we mostly discuss 1st grade on this sub, but I have to say, I am concerned with the general depth at GPS this year.

This was the 2nd week in a row that all their Saturday lower grades teams were beaten, first against Brothers @ Yoku and then Easts @ Easts. The Prems team scrapped together a win, but it's hard to build momentum and make a good finals push without a strong group of lower grades teams providing depth. Also in general a successful grades program is a happy and successful club, so I hope things turn around.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

I know we mostly discuss 1st grade on this sub, but I have to say, I am concerned with the general depth at GPS this year.

This was the 2nd week in a row that all their Saturday lower grades teams were beaten, first against Brothers @ Yoku and then Easts @ Easts. The Prems team scrapped together a win, but it's hard to build momentum and make a good finals push without a strong group of lower grades teams providing depth. Also in general a successful grades program is a happy and successful club, so I hope things turn around.

not only GPS. Think about Sunnybank and Norths over the past few years.

This is why I keep saying the QPR and clubland needs injection / revamp so we keep more young folk involved.

The drop off from school finish into colts into grade is far too steep.

Some analysis as to why would be worthwhile so a strategy could then target a solution.

Or we could just keep doing the same old stuff every year and hope it will turn it self around.

 

[PhilClinton]

not only GPS. Think about Sunnybank and Norths over the past few years.

Lets not bring Norths issues into the discussion - posters on here know my stance about that club. It's problems regarding depth, recruitment and players retention are far beyond anything at other QPR clubs.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

Norths need to bring back Nick Forgarty or someone similar to that. if they had of persisted with him, they would be a solid outfit. the problem with norths is that its not a quick fix.

word on the street they are throwing a bit of $$ around for next year a few young guns going there... then again im 80% sure it is 100% accurate

 

[rugbyrules]

not only GPS. Think about Sunnybank and Norths over the past few years.

This is why I keep saying the QPR and clubland needs injection / revamp so we keep more young folk involved.

The drop off from school finish into colts into grade is far too steep.

Some analysis as to why would be worthwhile so a strategy could then target a solution.

Or we could just keep doing the same old stuff every year and hope it will turn it self around.

QRU needs to sort out the colts mess - if they keep allowing stronger clubs to have colts 4 and 5 and 6 teams that just play each other each week on Thursday nights in nothing matches, then it damages the wider competition both now and into the future. It necessarily makes stronger clubs stronger (in numbers and quality) and weaker clubs weaker. Ultimately, the QRU needs a strong and even club competition to generate maximum broadcast and sponsorship $ ........ there should only be 3 colts teams only per club in premier rugby to ensure a better distribution of talent and numbers across all clubs for the benefit of the whole competition

 

[Adam84]

step their development

Dont put schoolboys straight into super rugby squads

Keep as many of them playing in a great quality QPR as possible so the Super Rugby contracts are actually competed for.

This argument ignores that it’s a competitive market for talent, it’s nice in theory but impractical in reality.

Every code is signing up teenagers in year 11 and 12 now. Proportion of Schoolboy rugby stars signed by NRL clubs before they even graduate is higher then ever and only increasing. Rugby Union can’t afford to be the exception to the norm because other codes will sign those players.

 

[Serge]

This argument ignores that it’s a competitive market for talent, it’s nice in theory but impractical in reality.

Every code is signing up teenagers in year 11 and 12 now. Proportion of Schoolboy rugby stars signed by NRL clubs before they even graduate is higher then ever and only increasing. Rugby Union can’t afford to be the exception to the norm because other codes will sign those players.

Why not sign them but make the first steps in their development process getting a year or two experience in QPR, with additional squad training with the Reds.

 

[Adam84]

Why not sign them but make the first steps in their development process getting a year or two experience in QPR, with additional squad training with the Reds.

Yeah, i think training full time in the Reds setup is the best avenue for any young player, and then playing QPR on weekends.

Ideally young players are blooded through QPR before getting close to Super Rugby, but limited squad sizes mean its only an injury or two from a call up from those young guys. They’ve only got 30 full time squad contracts, unless it expands its going to continue to be an issue

 

[PhilClinton]

QRU needs to sort out the colts mess - if they keep allowing stronger clubs to have colts 4 and 5 and 6 teams that just play each other each week on Thursday nights in nothing matches, then it damages the wider competition both now and into the future. It necessarily makes stronger clubs stronger (in numbers and quality) and weaker clubs weaker. Ultimately, the QRU needs a strong and even club competition to generate maximum broadcast and sponsorship $ ........ there should only be 3 colts teams only per club in premier rugby to ensure a better distribution of talent and numbers across all clubs for the benefit of the whole competition

But how do you tell some 18yr old blokes who are paying their fees to the club that they can't play with their mates and need to join another club?

Breaking news: you can't.

It's not on the QRU to distribute players in that way, clubs need to recruit and make their place appealing. And no offence to those players, but I doubt there is a big market for excess Colts 4 players. I mean that quite sincerely, some of the best clubmen and future club captains I've played with started off playing bottom level Colts. But I don't think the redistribution of Colts 4 players is high on the agenda of big issues the QPR are facing.

 

[rugbyrules]

But how do you tell some 18yr old blokes who are paying their fees to the club that they can't play with their mates and need to join another club?

Breaking news: you can't.

It's not on the QRU to distribute players in that way, clubs need to recruit and make their place appealing. And no offence to those players, but I doubt there is a big market for excess Colts 4 players. I mean that quite sincerely, some of the best clubmen and future club captains I've played with started off playing bottom level Colts. But I don't think the redistribution of Colts 4 players is high on the agenda of big issues the QPR are facing.

I don't suggest they be told to join another club. They can still join whatever club they like but if there are only 3 colts teams then some players will naturally find their way to another club along with their mates to get game time. Therefore creating more balanced numbers across the clubs and in turn improving the overall quality of the competition slowly - over time it would make a material improvement.

 

[PhilClinton]

I don't suggest they be told to join another club. They can still join whatever club they like but if there are only 3 colts teams then some players will naturally find their way to another club along with their mates to get game time. Therefore creating more balanced numbers across the clubs and in turn improving the overall quality of the competition slowly - over time it would make a material improvement.

Again though, I’m not sure it solves the problem. Guys playing down those grades aren’t always driven by game time. Sure, you’ll get a couple who will bail, but most would probably stay where they are because of the culture and/or convenience

I assume of the clubs you’re talking about is UQ, a lot of those lower grade colts are living at the Colleges or studying there. I’m not sure they’d go to Wests for example just for an extra 30mins of footy a week.

I know GPS had a situation a few years ago where they ended up with 45 players in Colts 3, the club decided not to go to Colts 4 because half the players would end up flaking out. All 45 blokes opted to play colts 3 together with reduced game time because they were there for the culture and mateship.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

This argument ignores that it’s a competitive market for talent, it’s nice in theory but impractical in reality.

Every code is signing up teenagers in year 11 and 12 now. Proportion of Schoolboy rugby stars signed by NRL clubs before they even graduate is higher then ever and only increasing. Rugby Union can’t afford to be the exception to the norm because other codes will sign those players.

Sign them up and make them clearly understand they are on an apprenticeship like pathway via qpr
Look at Jack Howarth at the Melbourne storm

 

[Adam84]

Sign them up and make them clearly understand they are on an apprenticeship like pathway via qpr
Look at Jack Howarth at the Melbourne storm

Jack Howarth is on $500k at the storm. Pretty easy to do an apprenticeship when you’re on that much.

And it’s a perfect example of the financial gap and battle that Queensland rugby faced in retaining young talent. Super Rugby clubs could barely offer $80k to a development player like that.

 

[RugbyReg]

Jack Howarth is on $500k at the storm. Pretty easy to do an apprenticeship when you’re on that much.

And it’s a perfect example of the financial gap and battle that Queensland rugby faced in retaining young talent. Super Rugby clubs could barely offer $80k to a development player.

Bloody QRU!!!!!

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

Jack Howarth is on $500k at the storm. Pretty easy to do an apprenticeship when you’re on that much.

And it’s a perfect example of the financial gap and battle that Queensland rugby faced in retaining young talent. Super Rugby clubs could barely offer $80k to a development player like that.

he has done 2 years on a base salary developing and showing enough that he is worth that sort of salary and yet Bellamy is not rushing him into the match day squad.
Smart move letting the young fella fill out and learn his trade behind the scenes. Melbourne will get long service out of him instead of a busted 21 year old

 

[Adam84]

Reality is

he has done 2 years on a base salary developing and showing enough that he is worth that sort of salary and yet Bellamy is not rushing him into the match day squad.
Smart move letting the young fella fill out and learn his trade behind the scenes. Melbourne will get long service out of him instead of a busted 21 year old

‘Base salary’ isn’t what he was on, he was re-signed to $500k in January after 12 months at the club. Listen I agree it would be nice to have squad positions and money for young players to earn $500k playing colts in QPR.

But rugby doesn’t have the money to fund squad sizes that support that. NRL have $10million to spend on up to 36 contracted positions. They could field two matchday squads. Super Rugby clubs have $5.5million to spend on 34 contracted positions, well short of the fielding 2 matchday squads.

You’re comparing to the Storm, Reds would require 46 contracted positions to have squad size equivalent to the Storm. They’re about 12 positions or $2million short of that.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

Reality is


‘Base salary’ isn’t what he was on, he was re-signed to $500k in January after 12 months at the club. Listen I agree it would be nice to have squad positions and money for young players to earn $500k playing colts in QPR.

But rugby doesn’t have the money to fund squad sizes that support that. NRL have $10million to spend on up to 36 contracted positions. They could field two matchday squads. Super Rugby clubs have $5.5million to spend on 34 contracted positions, well short of the fielding 2 matchday squads.

You’re comparing to the Storm, Reds would require 46 contracted positions to have squad size equivalent to the Storm. They’re about 12 positions or $2million short of that.

wasnt tangled up in the amount of dollars.
I used him as an example of how to player manage in relation to work load and exposure.
Fact is he wasnt rushed into a starting side, he was given and is still being given time to develop.

 

[SouthernX]

Had Jack stayed in union he’d probably be playing in one of the rep teams featuring this week.

but instead he is over in league being mentored by a knucklehead known as “hectic cheese”

I reckon his development trajectory would be further down the line at ballymore then what’s happening in Melbourne.

 

[Adam84]

wasnt tangled up in the amount of dollars.
I used him as an example of how to player manage in relation to work load and exposure.
Fact is he wasnt rushed into a starting side, he was given and is still being given time to develop.

End of the day, the NRL example you’re using costs a lot of dollars so you can’t ignore that tangle, it’s the root of the issue.

Super Rugby squads would need to increase by 12-14 contracted players to have the equivalent depth NRL squads have.

Its that depth that allows guys like Howarth not to be rushed into starting sides. And paying someone $500k makes them more content to bide their time in reserves as well.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

End of the day, the NRL example you’re using costs a lot of dollars so you can’t ignore that tangle, it’s the root of the issue.

Super Rugby squads would need to increase by 12-14 contracted players to have the equivalent depth NRL squads have.

Its that depth that allows guys like Howarth not to be rushed into starting sides. And paying someone $500k makes them more content to bide their time in reserves as well.

all the more reason we need to lift the management of our game including making a tier below Super Rugby semi professional.