SouthernX
John Thornett (49)
Yeah all good, I was just talking about a hypothetical coaching change might do Mowen wallaby selection just some wonders. IMHO Mowen > Dave Dennis & it's not even close
Qld Premier Rugby 2013
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Yeah all good, I was just talking about a hypothetical coaching change might do Mowen wallaby selection just some wonders. IMHO Mowen > Dave Dennis & it's not even close
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
O'donoghue worked hard.......should be a good pickup for wests when horwill gets back
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Arch Winning (36)
TD can you recall if (and when) he played there before going overseas? From what you've seen of him playing for the Reds has his style of play changed much? (I'd imagine skill would've improved, but some players are workmanlike, others abrasive etc)
Did he have a stint in NSW too?
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
He might of trained with nsw but he never signed with them. Qld is the only super team he has played for. He has bulked up quite a bit since he has left and i would say his game is tighter and he looks more of a lock now with his play (scrummaging,line outs and general play) Where back early 2000's he could have played 6 nearly.
I would have never have said him as abrasive but more the type of player that won't take shit or a backwards step. He would never start trouble but if it was on he would/could go (just like horwill)
He really improved at ulster as a player but leinster seemed to ruin him (which happens quite a lot) but he has seemed to get the mojo back this year and qld rugby is better for it.
I would have never have said him as abrasive but more the type of player that won't take shit or a backwards step. He would never start trouble but if it was on he would/could go (just like horwill)
He really improved at ulster as a player but leinster seemed to ruin him (which happens quite a lot) but he has seemed to get the mojo back this year and qld rugby is better for it.
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Arch Winning (36)
Thanks thierry dusautoir - appreciate it.
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
No problems cat. but my one tip cat is don't read into the Irish forums opinions on players to much they all rag on the foreigners and think the Celtic league is the worlds best competition.......so they look though the world with green shaded glasses
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Arch Winning (36)
Related to your post, I'm interested in whether you think a player's overall style of play ever changes based on their training/where they're playing/who the coach is, do you think a player is predisposed to playing in a certain style throughout their playing career? And if so, at what point do you think their style develops?
(In other words is there are nature vs nurture debate to be had with playing style?)
Although I've directed this question at thierry dusautoir I'm interested in how others see it too?
[As a bit of background to this question, I'm fascinated not so much by the game of rugby & who plays where and how & what the score ends up as etc but I'm really interested in the why and the what does it mean:
"why"- for example why is it so many backrowers are hyperactive (are they put there during training to keep them busy...
), why does a player choose to play the position they play (and how much conscious choice goes in to the decision by the player), what other factors go in to how players play (coaching? instinct?, body type? other? playing history?)
"what does it mean" - what does that game, that season, that player, mean in the grand scheme of rugby/ sport/ the life of the player etc etc.
It's an unusual take on things, but it might explain a bit about how I see the game and where I'm coming from sometimes]
(In other words is there are nature vs nurture debate to be had with playing style?)
Although I've directed this question at thierry dusautoir I'm interested in how others see it too?
[As a bit of background to this question, I'm fascinated not so much by the game of rugby & who plays where and how & what the score ends up as etc but I'm really interested in the why and the what does it mean:
"why"- for example why is it so many backrowers are hyperactive (are they put there during training to keep them busy...
), why does a player choose to play the position they play (and how much conscious choice goes in to the decision by the player), what other factors go in to how players play (coaching? instinct?, body type? other? playing history?)"what does it mean" - what does that game, that season, that player, mean in the grand scheme of rugby/ sport/ the life of the player etc etc.
It's an unusual take on things, but it might explain a bit about how I see the game and where I'm coming from sometimes]
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
Well essentially in my eyes a player will rock up at training and will have the gifts good gave them whether this be size, speed or strength. Originally based on these things coaches will say to a player I think this is where you should play. But overtime a players characteristics will come out, and a player might be considered a centre due to his reasonable pace and size, and could portray an astute understanding of the game as well as a ruthlessness in contact which in a lot of cases can't be taught. So he might be then told listen lad you would serve better in the backrow. transversely a player might be strong as an ox but lack the agility and motor for the loose. So he is told maybe front row is his position. (All this could happen over years and does happen a lot from schoolboys to grades)
I think as far as understanding the game and physical attributes its all down to the player but its a coach who should recognise how best to utilise these skills and then teach a player how to best utilise them.
I find one massive problem with junior coaching is that everyone is not taught the fundamentals. kids at the age of ten get pigeon holed in positions for those formative years whether it be prop cause they have puppy fat or wing cause they are tiny then get sent off to learn the skills of forwards and backs separately. The amount if kids I have come across who are playing centre but can't catch pass cause they were never taught as a kid due to them being considered props is crazy. Likewise wingers who hit puberty and become 6'5 but don't know how to hit a ruck and get in the ball.
It's hard question at juniors as hard as it sounds its up to the coach just together all the kids up to speed on skills. As adults it's still up to the coach to harness the men's natural potential to their advantage ...something's cannot be taught but they can be identified.
End essay (excuse the grammar I am on an iPad and can't be stuffed)
I think as far as understanding the game and physical attributes its all down to the player but its a coach who should recognise how best to utilise these skills and then teach a player how to best utilise them.
I find one massive problem with junior coaching is that everyone is not taught the fundamentals. kids at the age of ten get pigeon holed in positions for those formative years whether it be prop cause they have puppy fat or wing cause they are tiny then get sent off to learn the skills of forwards and backs separately. The amount if kids I have come across who are playing centre but can't catch pass cause they were never taught as a kid due to them being considered props is crazy. Likewise wingers who hit puberty and become 6'5 but don't know how to hit a ruck and get in the ball.
It's hard question at juniors as hard as it sounds its up to the coach just together all the kids up to speed on skills. As adults it's still up to the coach to harness the men's natural potential to their advantage ...something's cannot be taught but they can be identified.
End essay (excuse the grammar I am on an iPad and can't be stuffed)
SouthernX
John Thornett (49)
You don't feel that Ed might of done enough to dethrone Harrison as the backup Lock?
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Arch Winning (36)
Came across this in my travels.
http://qrfsu.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=169728
Is it just me, or are almost all of them still playing rugby union, and if so, is this a higher proportion of schoolboys still playing 2 or 3 years on, than usual?
[From 1999 (or so) there was a research paper that analysed the playing backgrounds of the Wallabies and they found that something like less than 2% of Australian U16s went on to play for the Wallabies, and only 15% were still playing rugby at 22yo (after age-limited competitions ended). As you went up through the levels (ie: Aussie Schoolboys, Aus 19s and Aus 21s as they were back then) the proportion grew greater, until 60-70% of Aus 21s went on to further honours, and more and more of them were still playing at 22+.
Part of my research study back then was looking at why this was so. Of course, the rugby landscape of 2013 is very different to the rugby landscape of the 1990s and early 2000s.]
http://qrfsu.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=169728
Is it just me, or are almost all of them still playing rugby union, and if so, is this a higher proportion of schoolboys still playing 2 or 3 years on, than usual?
[From 1999 (or so) there was a research paper that analysed the playing backgrounds of the Wallabies and they found that something like less than 2% of Australian U16s went on to play for the Wallabies, and only 15% were still playing rugby at 22yo (after age-limited competitions ended). As you went up through the levels (ie: Aussie Schoolboys, Aus 19s and Aus 21s as they were back then) the proportion grew greater, until 60-70% of Aus 21s went on to further honours, and more and more of them were still playing at 22+.
Part of my research study back then was looking at why this was so. Of course, the rugby landscape of 2013 is very different to the rugby landscape of the 1990s and early 2000s.]
These days there are more options with 5 Aust teams playing Super rugby. In 1999 we only had 3 teams. Also with Toyota Cup being an option for a professional environment for players to participate in and then return rugby is more of an option.
Queensland has for the last 5-10 years developed some great rugby talent for Australia. I wonder if this will continue with the QRU's focus now being on Rookies to Reds and School 7's programs?
Still plenty of guys from 08 playing too http://qrfsu.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=132293
Queensland has for the last 5-10 years developed some great rugby talent for Australia. I wonder if this will continue with the QRU's focus now being on Rookies to Reds and School 7's programs?
Still plenty of guys from 08 playing too http://qrfsu.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=132293
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
There is still quite a few in that group who arent playing or are playing lower grades.....i would suggest that it also has a lot to do with that fact that a lot of kids who are good in schoolboys dont really convert to senior football well. As alot of rep schoolboy player who rely on size or speed are quickly found out to be to reliant on these factors. I also have spoken to alot of boys about this and a lot feel like the prestige and sense of being the 'big show' of being a 1st XV or A grade rugby player in school is not present in Colts or grade football.
Think about how different it feels from, going from playing in front of a massive and vocal crowd at nudgee or churchie, and being somewhat of a hero. To playing premier colts at Hugh Courtney Oval in front of the colts 1 boys and a few parents.......it's a definite shift in culture & atmosphere. For a lot of kids that 1st XV crowd is the biggest they will play in front of unless they make it Pro or get to premier grade (which still isn't the same).
The feeling of going back to small bigger pond is more than some can take.
Think about how different it feels from, going from playing in front of a massive and vocal crowd at nudgee or churchie, and being somewhat of a hero. To playing premier colts at Hugh Courtney Oval in front of the colts 1 boys and a few parents.......it's a definite shift in culture & atmosphere. For a lot of kids that 1st XV crowd is the biggest they will play in front of unless they make it Pro or get to premier grade (which still isn't the same).
The feeling of going back to small bigger pond is more than some can take.
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Arch Winning (36)
A few blasts from the past there Jets including a handy Queensland bowler, a player whose name I recognise from the Knights and one I know 100% is playing overseas (I'm sure there are more).
I think your question about Rookies to Reds & Sevens is a really interesting one. I also wonder to what extent the Australian Sports Commission's funding requirement for Olympic sports (that in order to receive government funding you have to show that it is going equally to male & female athlete and sport development) has influenced these focus areas??
I think your question about Rookies to Reds & Sevens is a really interesting one. I also wonder to what extent the Australian Sports Commission's funding requirement for Olympic sports (that in order to receive government funding you have to show that it is going equally to male & female athlete and sport development) has influenced these focus areas??
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Arch Winning (36)
Interesting that Jets thought the numbers were good/high while thierry dusautoir thought they weren't that high. I guess then we're looking at performance vs participation which is a whole new (and for geeks like me, fascinating) kettle of fish. Alas I hate to hog the forum conversation completely so I can let that bit go for now...unless we want to go there - haha
Agree 100% TD - it takes a certain player personality type to cope with the reduction in prestige, but at the same time, there are those players who can also thrive in the less-public aspects of colts rugby.
Agree 100% TD - it takes a certain player personality type to cope with the reduction in prestige, but at the same time, there are those players who can also thrive in the less-public aspects of colts rugby.
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
I believe the colts sytem is a good development pathway in qld, my only qualm is it should be u20s as the drop off from colts to grades is huge as a lot of graduating colts still don't consider themselves up to the rigours of grade football even though they are 19 years of age. This will also pull us in line with the rest of Australia and prepare us for the fact that the average graduating age of grade 12's is set to rise 18 over the next few years due to the introduction of prep
1st XV's play under U19 laws. It's just most of them have coaches who don't know/follow the laws.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I think that colts should move to U20's, and also that all the grade clubs should have a lightweight team whereby all the players have to be 80Kg or under (maybe 85kg or under?).
There are a massive amount of guys who come out of school and want to play club rugby but are either not there physically or simply dont have the time to train to the level required to have fun playing prem colts. They can't go and play subbies because they are at least 5 years "too young" for it, and as such they end up being lost to club rugby forever.
Not to mention the guys that quit after one year of colts because they get too old for it but aren't up to playing grades yet.
There are a massive amount of guys who come out of school and want to play club rugby but are either not there physically or simply dont have the time to train to the level required to have fun playing prem colts. They can't go and play subbies because they are at least 5 years "too young" for it, and as such they end up being lost to club rugby forever.
Not to mention the guys that quit after one year of colts because they get too old for it but aren't up to playing grades yet.
There is no doubt that the support for grass roots rugby isn't there. After school they would have to play super rugby to get a crowd that surpasses a 1st XV crowd.
There is drop off for a number of reasons, but that is to be expected. Work, uni, social life (girls and booze), self motivation, lack of structure all play their part in why guys stop playing. I think an approx. 50% participation rate from 5 years ago is pretty high. Especially how many are in professional programs.
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