QLD GPS Rugby 2016

[TheKing]

At this stage I would only have Bullemor from Nudgee in my starting team of the season, but it comes with an asterisk because I haven't seen much of State High outside the Nudgee game and Fox Sports' highlights.

Props are very difficult to select, but at this stage Eugene Koorts and Josh Nasser are my bookends. I love carrying from front rowers in all teams I've coached.

Hooker is without doubt Matt Faessler. No hesitation. He's probably the first name anyone could put down on a teamsheet, for he's had a very special year.

My first lock is also an easy one. Harry Wilson has been spectacular for Gregory Terrace.

I've heard lots of good things about Trevor Hosea, and Angus Blyth has scored a few tries this year. I was particularly impressed with Tom Jeffries at Nudgee and Richard Clift at Toowoomba, but I think it's fair to stick Hosea in. He's made a big impression this year.

Back row is particularly tough. The #6 jersey belongs to Ethan Bullemor or Josh Fenner, but my lean is to the former. Nudgee relied so heavily on Bullemor in attack and he's been very good as a workhorse. I see lots of Reece Hewat in the way he carries, and if Bullemor develops a bit more lineout acumen over his career then I think Hewat will be a very apt analogy.

Ipswich's Josh Sheridan has been the standout seven of the competition, so he slots in nicely.

At No.8 I'm torn. Fraser McReight was apparently close to best on ground in every game BGS played, but Tipene Mavoa has picked up a lot of momentum in the back end of the season. Add to that Job Timi from Ipswich who has a seriously versatile game, Cullen Ngamanu who's developed quite the highlight reel, and Will Shelton who's just returned from injury and is playing the house down. I'll select McReight in my personal team of the season.

At halfback, I've liked what I've seen from Neal McNamara. Sam Kirk's kicking is among the best in the comp, and I remember being very impressed when Tarabay filled in for Oberholzer last year. Still, McNamara's running game and communication will do it for me.

Augustus Rangihuna has had a very good year, even if his goalkicking left lots to be desired. Isaac Henry, similarly to Mavoa, has come on very strong at the back end and might have been a shout if he showed this form earlier. Isaac Lucas owns the flyhalf jersey without question.

On the wings, I see four real contenders. Will Eadie has nailed one spot down, leaving Koen Dovey, Jordan Petaia and Ashton Watson battling it out for final spot. In my personal team, I'd pick Petaia. He and Murray Taulagi made for an awesome back three attack, so I'll keep that partnership together.

Centres, 12 is between Kye Oates and Quinton Mahina. Lolesio and Meni didn't play enough games, BBC had a revolving door at the position and Bailey Ralston hasn't quite done enough for me in team of the year consideration. Kye Oates was the main playmaker for TGS with excellent variety in his kicking and passing. Pretty courageous defence too, so I'll pick Oates.

13, Len Ikitau. Defence, Attack, he was arguably the most dominant player of any position let alone his own. Semisi Tupou and Tautau Kapea, plus Coen van Dugteren and Clayton Mack, all were very good this year but no one is taking this spot from Ikitau.

At fullback, Willie Malala didn't play enough games for mine and Callum Hicks didn't have half the season Taulagi had. Murray Taulagi in a heartbeat.

1. Eugene Koorts (IGS)
2. Matt Faessler (TGS)
3. Josh Nasser (GT)
4. Trevor Hosea (BBC)
5. Harry Wilson (GT)
6. Ethan Bullemor (NC)
7. Josh Sheridan (IGS)
8. Fraser McReight (BGS)
9. Neal McNamara (BSHS)
10. Isaac Lucas (GT)
11. Jordan Petaia (BSHS)
12. Kye Oates (TGS)
13. Len Ikitau (BBC)
14. Will Eadie (GT)
15. Murray Taulagi (BSHS)

16. Sean Farrell (BBC)
17. Lloyd Gorman (BSHS)
18. Blake Schoupp (NC)
19. Tom Jeffries (NC)
20. Josh Fenner (BSHS)
21. Isaac Henry (9+10 coverage) (BBC)
22. Augustus Rangihuna (NC)
23. Semisi Tupou (NC)

NC 5
BSHS 5
GT 4
BBC 3
TGS 2
IGS 2
BGS 1
TSS 0
ACGS 0



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[Garry Owens]

I think you nailed it King , although , following in BAG's vain......I'm a Lloyd Gorman fan

But yeah there is nothing in it between Gorman , Koorts and Nasser

 

[Garry Owens]

Harry Wilson as an 8 is not out of place . His ability to offload the ball in contact is really something

Maybe the best ball handling skills for a forward I have seen over the last 5 years

 

[TheKing]

I think you nailed it King , although , following in BAG's vain..I'm a Lloyd Gorman fan

But yeah there is nothing in it between Gorman , Koorts and Nasser

I like Gorman, but I couldn't justify picking him to start when he got his arse handed to him by a converted hooker.


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[Legend of the 80's]

OK so it's nearly the end of the season and looks like there is a chance of either an outright win or a shared premiership.

So I thought it may be interesting to run the results using the old Super 15 Bonus Points System - 1 BP for scoring 4 tries or more and 1 BP for losing by less than 7. I had to make a few guesses/assumption on some weeks where I had no reliable data but it would paint a very different picture going into week 9. (So don't crucify me).

1. TSS - 15
2. TGS - 13
=3. GT - 12
=3. BBC - 12
=5. Nudgee - 11
=5. BSHS - 11
7. IGS - 9
8. BGS - 3
9. Churchie - 2

TSS & TGS would benefit from close losses and the big scores.

Just a thought as the ARU you holds it's "strategic review". One final thought be careful what you wish for.

 

[Whisperer]

Well Isaac Henry started the season with a broken rib so that didn't help.
Looks like a pretty strong team though

And I hear he carried a lower back injury all season.
If that's true he is one tough kid!!

 

[Webbodactyl]

OK so it's nearly the end of the season and looks like there is a chance of either an outright win or a shared premiership.

So I thought it may be interesting to run the results using the old Super 15 Bonus Points System - 1 BP for scoring 4 tries or more and 1 BP for losing by less than 7. I had to make a few guesses/assumption on some weeks where I had no reliable data but it would paint a very different picture going into week 9. (So don't crucify me).

1. TSS - 15
2. TGS - 13
=3. GT - 12
=3. BBC - 12
=5. Nudgee - 11
=5. BSHS - 11
7. IGS - 9
8. BGS - 3
9. Churchie - 2

TSS & TGS would benefit from close losses and the big scores.

Just a thought as the ARU you holds it's "strategic review". One final thought be careful what you wish for.

Surely the points would be much higher than that, most of the top schools score 4+ consistently

 

[Dark Shark]

Surely the points would be much higher than that, most of the top schools score 4+ consistently

Also to be fair, the bonus point system operates when four points are given for a win and not two as in this calculation.

 

[Webbodactyl]

Also to be fair, the bonus point system operates when four points are given for a win and not two as in this calculation.

Exactly Toowoomba have won 2 games this year compared to 5 by others who are below them, the weighting is wrong

 

[Legend of the 80's]

Exactly Toowoomba have won 2 games this year compared to 5 by others who are below them, the weighting is wrong

OK so changed a win to equal 4 points and it looks like this:
1 BSHS 30
2 Nudgee 27
3 Terrace 26
4 TSS 25
5 IGS 21
6 BBC 20
7 TGS 19
8 BGS 5
9 Churchie 4

Pretty close to what we have. Thanks for the feedback. It would help give a clear winner though.

 

[TheKing]

I ran a survey today asking people what their preferred format of First XV competition was.

I also received a message from a former First XV Captain who had this to say.

I saw the article you shared about the ARU looking at the school competitions in qld and nsw. Anyway long story short, it got me and two blokes I coach with talking.

One of them is South African, played for the Bulls in the first ever super rugby tournament and has coached in South African schools for donkey years and this is what we (mainly the South African fella thought would work best).

16 school comp. 4 pools of 4 teams.

Each team plays the other team in their pool once.

Pool A
Pool B
Pool C
Pool D

Top two from pool A and B play each other

Top two from pool C and D play each other

Same idea repeats itself

Two winners of the A and B games will play the two winners of the c and d games

This will leave you with the top 2 who will play off in the grand final
As well as 3 and 4 who will play off for positions 3 and 4 whilst the losers of a and b games play the losers of the c and d games.

This will give you play off games for 5 v 6 7 v 8 Bottom two from pool A and B play eachother

Bottom two from pool c and d play eachother Winners of pool a vs pool b matches will verse winners of pool c vs pool d matches (same will happen with the losers of these matches)

Ultimately plays out as the top 8

You end up getting play offs for Positions 9 v 10 11 v 12 13 v 14 15 v 16

This then ranks the team 1-16 So the following year you make the pools again

Pool A
Team 1
Team 8
Team 12
Team 16

Pool B
Team 2
Team 7
Team 11
Team 15

Pool C
Team 3
Team 6
Team 10
Team 14

Pool D
Team 4
Team 5
Team 9
Team 13

This style of tournament has a number of positives

1. Gives you a lot of football
2. Schools will be playing other schools of equal ability but also means an underdog can go a long way in the competition
3. Eliminates the ridiculous situation of 3 teams sharing a premiership
4. Exposes schools to quality opposition - so say the AIC schools join with the GPS schools - yeah the AIC schools will cop it in the first year or two but eventually they'll improve and their programs will improve and will be competitive and challenging for top four positions
5. Qru can host finals matches (personally not a fan because school games should be played at school field)

I asked the former captain how he would include non-traditional schools if there were only 16 teams? With nine GPS and I believe eight in the AIC, that doesn't leave much room to grow the state school game.

He replied:

"Yeah 100% agree but it doesn't necessarily have to be the GPS and AIC schools it would have to depend on whether they buy into it.

"But if it's GPS and AIC that form this partnership Could make a similar tournament/competition with the TAS schools and the schools that aren't considered "traditional" schools.

"For example Mansfield is a massive school with a huge catchment - if you put in the right systems and bring in or train coaches in the right manner you could grow them into the competition."

I thought the idea had great merit. What do the rest of the forum think?

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

16 school comp. 4 pools of 4 teams.

Each team plays the other team in their pool once.

Pool A
Pool B
Pool C
Pool D

Top two from pool A and B play each other

Top two from pool C and D play each other

Same idea repeats itself

Two winners of the A and B games will play the two winners of the c and d games

This will leave you with the top 2 who will play off in the grand final
As well as 3 and 4 who will play off for positions 3 and 4 whilst the losers of a and b games play the losers of the c and d games.

This will give you play off games for 5 v 6 7 v 8 Bottom two from pool A and B play eachother

Bottom two from pool c and d play eachother Winners of pool a vs pool b matches will verse winners of pool c vs pool d matches (same will happen with the losers of these matches)

Ultimately plays out as the top 8

You end up getting play offs for Positions 9 v 10 11 v 12 13 v 14 15 v 16

This then ranks the team 1-16 So the following year you make the pools again

Pool A
Team 1
Team 8
Team 12
Team 16

Pool B
Team 2
Team 7
Team 11
Team 15

Pool C
Team 3
Team 6
Team 10
Team 14

Pool D
Team 4
Team 5
Team 9
Team 13

This style of tournament has a number of positives

1. Gives you a lot of football
2. Schools will be playing other schools of equal ability but also means an underdog can go a long way in the competition
3. Eliminates the ridiculous situation of 3 teams sharing a premiership
4. Exposes schools to quality opposition - so say the AIC schools join with the GPS schools - yeah the AIC schools will cop it in the first year or two but eventually they'll improve and their programs will improve and will be competitive and challenging for top four positions
5. Qru can host finals matches (personally not a fan because school games should be played at school field)

I asked the former captain how he would include non-traditional schools if there were only 16 teams? With nine GPS and I believe eight in the AIC, that doesn't leave much room to grow the state school game.

He replied:

"Yeah 100% agree but it doesn't necessarily have to be the GPS and AIC schools it would have to depend on whether they buy into it.

"But if it's GPS and AIC that form this partnership Could make a similar tournament/competition with the TAS schools and the schools that aren't considered "traditional" schools.

"For example Mansfield is a massive school with a huge catchment - if you put in the right systems and bring in or train coaches in the right manner you could grow them into the competition."

I thought the idea had great merit. What do the rest of the forum think?

I feel like there is a chance of this working, but it would work best in the way that SA Rugby used to select the 5th Super Rugby Team. In this situation, there is a separate competition that begins after the pools. In this case, other schools would begin a new pool process, probably with 4 pools of 3 teams. The top 8 out of this competition would join the top 8 teams from the last year in the competition. I reckon this would enable TAS schools and other schools the opportunity to qualify. Also, it stops low quality teams from getting thrashed for years on end and a smaller end of year compition which they can hop to win.

The idea has merit, like you said, but it is going to be bloody difficult to get the GPS schools on board.

 

[TheKing]

Not sure it would need to stretch into term 2? It seems pretty quick.

The team plays three matches back to back in the pool stages.

Winner of Pool A plays runner up of Pool A, for the right to play their Pool B equivalent.

They progress to the grand final and it's a 6 game season.

Term 4 goes for six weeks for Year 12 students right?

What if they played a regular GPS season in Term 3, then this FA Cup style competition for First XVs in Term 4? Takes the games played total up to 14, which is an improvement on 8.

You'd need to run two competitions to accomodate the 17 GPS and AIC teams as well as interested State Schools/TAS. A Brisbane "Premiership" and a Brisbane "Championship". Possibly with promotion and demotion. Top 2 eams from Championship replace bottom 2 from Premiership.

 

[Dark Shark]

No problems with this format. But that is for the First XV only. What about the 30 other odd teams at most schools? And that is where many of the issues lie when integrating the schools into a model that best works to benefit Australian rugby.

The schools are the original tribal groups in Australian rugby and I believe the schools do not just see it as a rugby game but a day that brings the students and wider community together to support each other. A lot of intangible that would possibly get lost if school teams are dislocated.

Or do you run this type of comp in pre season and then retain the traditional comps for normal season. Don't just run it for Firsts, but run it for all age groups and have a three, four or more tier comp with a relegation mechanism for each following year. Schools can enter more than one team.

 

[Realist]

All interesting ideas. If we are looking to get the kids some more rugby why not look at playing a number of GPS 7s tournaments during term 4. Maybe instead of having a whole school traveling to another school have School A hosting all U13 teams, School B hosting all U14 Teams, School C hosting all U15 teams etc. on the same day.
The beauty of this is that the kids would get multiple games on the day and it can be done over 3 or 4 weekends or what ever works to fit in with the shorter term.
Anyway food for thought.

 

[Garry Owens]

There are some great ideas and suggestions in all of this , and we all are ( of course ) Rugby tragics.

To play Devil's advocate for a minute though ...............to effect change we are talking about many and different School Associations getting on the same page , when at a layer down , schools within their respective associations struggle to get on the same page.

Why ?

Because they all have their individual drivers of what is important to them at moments in time in the context of their overall curriculum

In terms of School Sport , Rugby is the clear dominator - no question . On average across the GPS and AIC/TAS Schools, I would estimate that between 40% to 50% of students play. And then two dogs and a flea at State Schools.

Within private schools, Headmasters need to deal with the other 50% of the population who already feel that Rugby has waaaaaaaay too much focus and attention to the detriment of the rest of the curriculum.

And then further upstream we're relying on leadership and co-operation in convening some type of regional , then national , schools competition from the ARU and respective State Unions

So I'll cut to the chase and suggest that the only way that this has a puncher's chance of ever happening is if there is a significant amount of money on the table for the participating Associations /Schools to help lubricate the wheels of change , and to follow , the prestige and exposure of participating that gives the Associations /Schools their drums to bang

And following on from this ( and as suggested prior ) you are talking significant Private /Commercial Sponsorship and Broadcast Rights and a model for sharing SRRI ( Schoolboy Rugby Related Income )

The business model needs to be developed first so that its clear what's on offer and how compelling it may be ( if it actually is ) for all stakeholders - Commercial/Sponsorship stakeholders first and then participating Associations /Schools second .

And not just in the here and now - but in the "bigger picture" longer term ..........because it may not be that ( financially ) at first

 

[Lindommer]

As a matter of interest, what school grouping does Downlands compete in?

 

[Garry Owens]

And in terms of "bringing in Mansfield" ........."Rugby" still underestimates and doesn't get the significance of the hearts and minds battle in the formative years.

If Rugby as "a product" had it's national shit together and knew how to market the game at the big level and then down at the little levels .........well sending in The Coaches and Systems to "Mansfield" and the like might actually work

So in the meantime ......in State Education , if :

1. Toowong is the Smart School
2. KG is the Arts School / Tennis School
3. Mansfield is the Info Tech School
4. Keebra , Coombabah, Wavell and Cav Rd are the League Schools

and I would assume this consolidation of talent in whatever the identity /endeavour is the same in other states ........

rather than spend a shitload of resources , in isolation , in trying to find the next Israel Folau from Marsden High or wherever ( these days the next Israel Folau is more likely to be at a GPS School in Grade 8 or 9 ) - wouldn't the smarter move be for the State Rugby bodies , together with the hard drive in operational and financial support from the ARU , be to consolidate and with the co-operation of the State's Education Departments "own" a few designated centres of excellence of Rugby through the State Educational systems ?

Build it and they will come .

Perhaps with some carrots on offer

 

[TheKing]

In terms of School Sport , Rugby is the clear dominator - no question . On average across the GPS and AIC/TAS Schools, I would estimate that between 40% to 50% of students play. And then two dogs and a flea at State Schools.

...

So I'll cut to the chase and suggest that the only way that this has a puncher's chance of ever happening is if there is a significant amount of money on the table for the participating Associations /Schools to help lubricate the wheels of change , and to follow , the prestige and exposure of participating that gives the Associations /Schools their drums to bang

Competition-wide, I'd say participation is lower than 40% even with the brazillian teams per year at Terrace and Nudgee inflating numbers.

Incentivising schools to participate is super challenging.

To get small schools interested, cash and attention from the Queensland Reds must be the ultimate attractions.

But if it's a cash prize, the GPS would get scared away because it makes their already semi-professional athletes professional. That's a distinction they've been trying hard to make ever since importing became widespread following 2009.

I don't know what carrot-on-a-stick makes an FA Cup competition valuable to GPS schools.

 

[TheKing]

As a matter of interest, what school grouping does Downlands compete in?

Previously, Downlands belonged to no competition. They organised the sporting calendar week by week, ringing up GPS Schools and offering to play them on their bye.

In 2016 they founded their own competition to play in Term 2 with other smaller schools, but the GPS is still their main operating field.