QLD GPS Rugby 2014

[Lee Grant]

RedsHappy

Gilmore is a bit of a legend up there isn't he? I don't know the guy but he gets results so maybe it is time for a change.

But Phillpotts has done a great job and even this year's team (unusually missing their top three Aussie players, in my opinion) went within three points of NZ Schools late in the game this year.

Churchies 2014 team was a great team, but in my opinion the BSHS 2009 team was by far and away the better team.

Lee, for me, and using a whole-of-season view:

3. Harley Fox at 8
2. Angus Scott-Young (hmm, sound familiar) at 4 or 5
1. Mack Mason at 10

Being from south of your border I've never seen either team play, let alone this year or in 2009, specifically, but the 2009 BSHS team must have been something else.

They had seven of their players in the Qld I 1st XV that year with the standouts being Paul Alo-Emile and two brilliant 15 year-olds: Curtis Browning and Chris Sautia (as he was known then).

Actually, I didn't find out that Browning and Sautia were so young until late in the Aus Schools week.

I was flabbergasted.

Looking at my 2009 programmes v Tonga Schools: five BSHS lads were selected to run on for Oz Schools (and one reserve) - plus two others ran on for Oz A Schools.

Eight (of a party of 28) were selected for Aus Schools to tour Ireland and the UK at the end of the year.

A team is more than the sum of its good players but you'd have to think that 2009 BSHS team was better than the 2014 Churchie team, which had two players in the Qld I 1st XV this year.
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[BraveandGame]

Lee, for me, and using a whole-of-season view:

3. Harley Fox at 8
2. Angus Scott-Young (hmm, sound familiar) at 4 or 5
1. Mack Mason at 10

Ponga (at 15) was superb at opportunity-taking, but not quite as instrumental as the three above in opportunity-making. Asiata at prop always made excellent metres in the hard carry, his consistently good technique into and around the defenders' tackle was superb to watch.

As usual, the enjoyable highlights vid above is mostly flashy backs work, but the real key to the team's excellence was in their dominating forwards work that provided Mason and Nucifora (at 9) with vast quantities of fast, clean ball.

The team was also exceptionally well coached by Jason Gilmore, who IMO should be given a crack at Aus Schoolboys sooner rather than later as, bluntly, I think Philpotts is well passed his best.

In the two games I saw I thought 12 Sua was their best, he would be my pick to kick on to a senior career in Rugby (L or U)

 

[Murphys Law]

Lee I think you earlier on in this thread it was said that a number of boys in the Churchie team didn't trial for GPS due to injury and also other commitments. They most likely would have had a higher representation had they not. I think at least 5 of their players have represented Qld in league. Rugbyhead I was at the 7s with Keebra and let me tell you, those boys looked like they were having a training run.

 

[Lee Grant]

Lee I think you earlier on in this thread it was said that a number of boys in the Churchie team didn't trial for GPS due to injury and also other commitments.

I think at least 5 of their players have represented Qld in league.

No, I wouldn't have known that, and if I have quoted someone else, I have forgotten, and can't think why I would.

Do you mean that there would have been more Churchie boys in the Qld I team had they not been injured?

As for league players at GPS schools - aren't they chosen for Queensland Schools in rugby union if they are good enough playing our code?
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[Murphys Law]

Sorry Lee that read wrong mate. I didn't mean you said it. Take the you out its a typo. Im not 100% sure, just what I have read throughout this forum. Ive followed the league boys with a bit of interest as I have been involved with them in the league world. I have heard about most of them transitioning well. With the development in league, compared to rugby in Brisbane (and I have been involved with both with my son finishing up GPS last year and now in the Holden Cup), I believe making Qld for league is more competitive than union. So if these kids have represented the maroon colours for league, then I would have to think they would have been a chance. From what I remember reading, Churchie players with league backgrounds did not trial as they had league commitments.

 

[Murphys Law]

B&G Sua played with my boy in 18 Qld Maroons this year for league, he was outstanding. Big presence on the field for a 16 year old.

Can anyone tell me if Fox is with league or union for next year? I recall him also playing with my son in league a few years back now.

 

[RedsHappy]

A team is more than the sum of its good players but you'd have to think that 2009 BSHS team was better than the 2014 Churchie team, which had two players in the Qld I 1st XV this year.
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As posters above have rightly noted these 'who was the best GPS team' calls over various periods are tough to make and just as important to the season winner's assessment is, inter alia, how good, relatively, were all the other teams they played against that year, and so forth.

Two factual anecdotes re Churchie 2014:

- season-long PF was 403 and PA 103, that's an impressive PD by any standard over 8 games.

- the team's average scoreline over 8 games was 50 - 13.

How does that compare with BSHS 2009? (Unfortunately on the QLD GPS web site for historical rugby stats for each recent year, the only row missing data is for 2009!)

One more thing: numerous Nudgee parents with players past and present in Nudgee 1st XVs volunteered to me that 'this 2014 Churchie team is the best (QLD) GPS team we've ever seen.' Believe me, coming from parents at that level within the State's proudest, and very high achieving, rugby school, that is praise indeed.

 

[Lee Grant]

It sounds like a good argument for Churchie 2014 v BSHS 2009 - but is not the number of lads chosen for Aus Schools in the particular years (see my post # 2970) not a more valid benchmark? [Assuming that players from the Dark Side at the schools in both years could be chosen for the national team.]

Geez - I don't know what got me down this track, but I took the first step, I suppose.
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[RedsHappy]

It sounds like a good argument for Churchie 2014 v BSHS 2009 - but is not the number of lads chosen for Aus Schools in the particular years (see my post # 2970) not a more dispassionate benchmark? [Assuming that players from the Dark Side in both years could be chosen.]

Geez - I don't know what got me down this track, but I took the first step, I suppose.
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Lee, I get that and your point has validity, but as you yourself noted, we are discussing team quality here within the GPS comp, not individual talent banks per se. As a Waratahs man over many years, you'd know all about the difference in those two parameters .

That's partly why I'd like to compare PF and PA and PD and thus per game points averages over 8 games for BSHS 2009 v Churchie 2014, I think you'd agree that too is quite a valid assessment criterion when comparing teams that played exactly the same comp.

I notice too FWIW that the 2009 Aus Schoolboys lost to NZ Schoolboys and at Ballymore.

 

[RedsHappy]

Btw: as other posters above have noted, I'd love the ARU to be taking way more interest in the NSW and QLD GPS comps, I see nothing of them in any sense supporting what has been FFS one of their great breeding grounds of elite rugby players, costing them zilch.

For example, the cost of them funding or part funding a QLD GPS Premier team vs NSW GPS Premier Team at alternating State locations every year would be small, but would draw good crowd and media interest IMO as well as bringing further attention to the very high and always entertaining standards of rugby these schools play. And something similar for the best 2nd XVs and 3 XVs.

Just as enticing would be a short set of matches vs the equivalent NZ schools, perhaps in a short structured competition over a long weekend.

A bit of creative marketing and organisational imagination from the ARU (what did I just say?) in aiding the profile of these wonderful rugby comps would go some way to ensure they're sustained in quality and, just as importantly, in family and player motivation.

 

[Lee Grant]

Lee, I get that and your point has validity, but as you yourself noted, we are discussing team quality here within the GPS comp, not individual talent banks per se.

I don't know what you meant by "within the team comp" because it would mean one thing to you and another to me.

If you meant that Churchie was more dominant in the GPS this year than BSHS was in 2009. I have no clue, but I know that TSS was very strong in 2009 also, yet BSHS got the lion's share of rep spots.

All I asked is how folks who saw both teams rated them, absolutely - I meant notionally, against each other, not in regard to their opponents of the year. Only Scot, who saw both, replied to the point - that BSHS was "far and away the better team" of the two.

We need a bigger sample.

I thought as benchmarks for comparisons, that selections for Qld I this year and in 2009 was a reasonable rule of thumb, and that selection for Aus Schools in the two years was also.

BSHS wins those two comparisons by a landslide.

Nothing more to say.

Regards

LG

PS - before I read your post #2978 I edited my earlier post to replace "dispassionate" with "valid".
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[rugbyhead01]

BSHS and Churchie aside, I don't think number of selections into a State team or National team really say who is a better team really. We all know politics play a part in the make up of most rep teams and this year. It really is on how a team plays as a team that makes them the better team. Im not sure how many games Scot saw of the 09 State team or how many of Churchies games he watched this year to be able to merit his pick. I think it is obvious both teams were exceptional.

 

[warrenwobble]

I'm going to chime in here and say that the Churchie team were the best coached team I have ever seen in GPS rugby and I think that was a massive part of their success. Of course they had some very good players as well.

It's very hard to line up the players and the level of competition across the 2 different years - as the quality of rugby across the board has improved markedly since 2009. That said both teams in question put nearly a century on Grammar in each year!!

So Grammar are doing better than Emma Freedman on Cup Day to help us line up the form across the years! Considerate buggers!

 

[Ben Smith]

Re: State and National Rep selections being the first yardstick

Can't compare because Churchie players had to choose to trial for league reps or union reps. Ponga and Sua def went league, and a couple others too (maybe Croft and Mason?)

Perese didnt even play QLD 1s as injured, but then was selected for Aus Schoolboys.

IMO cant use that stat to compare the 2 sides.

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[Jets]

In regards to the coach of Aust Schools, I am of the understanding that it has to be a teacher. If this is the case it would rule Gilly out.


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[Nightmare]

In the two games I saw I thought 12 Sua was their best, he would be my pick to kick on to a senior career in Rugby (L or U)

Broncos have huge wraps on him.

 

[Nightmare]

Re: State and National Rep selections being the first yardstick

Can't compare because Churchie players had to choose to trial for league reps or union reps. Ponga and Sua def went league, and a couple others too (maybe Croft and Mason?)

Perese didnt even play QLD 1s as injured, but then was selected for Aus Schoolboys.

IMO cant use that stat to compare the 2 sides.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

100% correct the league boys didn't trial as they has to chose 1 or the other

 

[Nightmare]

B&G Sua played with my boy in 18 Qld Maroons this year for league, he was outstanding. Big presence on the field for a 16 year old.

Can anyone tell me if Fox is with league or union for next year? I recall him also playing with my son in league a few years back now.

Fox has signed an ARU contract so has #13
Fox formally played league and is from Ipswich

 

[Nightmare]

To try and single out 1 players for the Churchie team this would be unfair to the rest.Yes they had some great tries but IMO the forwards did the hard yards,got great service from #9 who I didn't rare that highly last year as I thought he tried too hard,#10 had a great understanding with the others from previous league teams and obviously those outside backs were something else.
Having said the above the coach IMO taught the team to be clinical which was there for all to see.
Looking forward to seeing these boys playing grade union of league in years to come.
Wise man once said,"Lets not analyse things too much,just sit back and enjoy the show",and that is exactly what I did this year

 

[Nightmare]

Re: State and National Rep selections being the first yardstick

Can't compare because Churchie players had to choose to trial for league reps or union reps. Ponga and Sua def went league, and a couple others too (maybe Croft and Mason?)

Perese didnt even play QLD 1s as injured, but then was selected for Aus Schoolboys.

IMO cant use that stat to compare the 2 sides.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Yes Mason & Croft both played rep league.What would surprise many is that Croft is a #7 in league yet #14 in union.Could very well end up being the #10 for Churchie next year.Both boys are in the Storm elite development program