Pumas vs Wallabies - Sunday 9th October @ Twickenham

[dru]

Am I the only one who sees a kind of synergy between these two?

OK we lose size at 12 and the combination needs work. But I'm liking it for now.

 

[Twoilms]

i cant get those stats off ESPN Scrum because they only tell me how many kicks have been made and what sort of kick it was, but it doesnt say how many were attempted. i believe TWAS posted the kicking stats earlier though which had Cooper at 72% and Foley at 75% ( if i remember correctly) which i hardly think is enough to make Foley a better candidate.

The stats indicate that Quade is more then twice as likely to create a try, is more likely to beat a defender and to get more metres, however Foley is much better for linebreaks and considering Foley has played 35 tests to Quades 62, his strike rate for scoring tries is much more impressive. no surprises Quade is much better at offloading and a slightly better defender. Foley averages Slightly less Turnovers Conceded per game and is much less likely to be penalised.

Foley was listed as 79% on the coverage last match, and hit 2/2 so pushing 80?

 

[KOB1987]

Foley was listed as 79% on the coverage last match, and hit 2/2 so pushing 80?

That's probably right for internationals, I think TWASs stats included super rugby.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

i did say that i didnt have the goakicking stats, i was stating what TWAS said above and i didnt even bother to check what he said i was ust trying to remember from the top of my head. however since its been brought up i found the kicking percentage for Foley on a great site called http://goalkickers.co.za
which has Foley kicking at 77% for his test career (239 out of 310) and also ranks the difficulty of the kicks hes taken which he scored a 3.96 out of 10 in. that gave him a kicking rating of 4.8 out of 10.

Quade kicks at 72% (75 out of 104) but attempts harder kicks with a rating of 4.80 giving him a rating of 4.8 out of 10 as well. so i dont think goalkicking is really a factor for deciding whose better. Particularly when Quade is better at most other things.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Last year I preferred Foley at 10 than Cooper and games showed this was justified.

On current form of both for 10, I prefer Cooper this year at 10. Recent games also show this view is justified. I also think the combination of Cooper Foley is showing promise. There will be other players kicking the heels behind Foley if he stumbles....or more if others prove better viable option at 12. Hodge one candidate and dare I say it Simone if continues on current trajectory another.

But despite all the Foley haters I still like Cooper - Foley combination at the moment as no one else justified replacing Foley at 12 at this stage.

People also seem to forget that was no brainer last year that Foley start ahead of Cooper when came to RWC. So comments Foley is just shite is just naïve. Not at his best but he has in past proven quality player when in form so deserves a bit more respect than what given on these forums imo.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

I'm not at all saying Foley is a crap player. Hes a great runner of the ball, brilliant Support player, Solid defensively, well disciplined, good distributor and a decent goal kicker. i was simply pointing out that from a statistical stand point Cooper is better in most categories. Just because i think Cooper is better then Foley doesnt Mean i think Foley is a poor player. its a shame that Foley is small and weak in contact, because if he was slightly better defensively he has all the attributes i want in a inside Centre. i think the problem at the moment is that Foley and Cooper seem to be getting in each others way at 1st receiver instead of working like a team. If Cooper spends most of the game at 1st reciever and Foley Stays at inside centre then i think it could be a very good combination.

 

[Train Without a Station]

And equally seem to forget that Cooper was only fit for 4 games of the Super Rugby season. You think that might have been a factor?

 

[Strewthcobber]

45,000 tickets sold for this one already.

The gbp ain't what it used to be but still should be a nice earner for the UAR.

 

[Sully]

I think playing two flyhalves has been hurting us for a long time and I yearn for a real 12 to step up.

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[dru]

I think playing two flyhalves has been hurting us for a long time and I yearn for a real 12 to step up.

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At last. Sully the needed response.

Bloke, right now I dont agree. If I was asked without watching a few of the last games I would have thought it an idiocy.

But I dont. I'm not sure this has a life span more than the pooper, but right now its doing good.

Hell, I'm obviously weird. I ike them both.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Depends on what you call a real 12, Sully. I've long believed in the concept of having a combination of a distributor and crasher in the centres, so in a situation where we have TK or Kerevi at 13, who would be the passer? I like Hodge in the midfield eventually, but would prefer to not have someone just like him as the other centre.

 

[Viking]

People also seem to forget that was no brainer last year that Foley start ahead of Cooper when came to RWC. So comments Foley is just shite is just naïve. Not at his best but he has in past proven quality player when in form so deserves a bit more respect than what given on these forums imo.

Actually no it wasn't a no brainer. Both Cooper and Foley performed very poorly in the lead up to the RWC. Both had horrible Rugby Championship games.

Foley was arguable the lesser worst of the two by the tiniest of margins. But he did end up justifying selection only after the England game. Then people finally got on board.

 

[Twoilms]

Depends on what you call a real 12, Sully. I've long believed in the concept of having a combination of a distributor and crasher in the centres, so in a situation where we have TK or Kerevi at 13, who would be the passer? I like Hodge in the midfield eventually, but would prefer to not have someone just like him as the other centre.

Nonu didn't become one of the best until he had distribution skills.

 

[Viking]

I'm not at all saying Foley is a crap player. Hes a great runner of the ball, brilliant Support player, Solid defensively, well disciplined, good distributor and a decent goal kicker. i was simply pointing out that from a statistical stand point Cooper is better in most categories. Just because i think Cooper is better then Foley doesnt Mean i think Foley is a poor player. its a shame that Foley is small and weak in contact, because if he was slightly better defensively he has all the attributes i want in a inside Centre. i think the problem at the moment is that Foley and Cooper seem to be getting in each others way at 1st receiver instead of working like a team. If Cooper spends most of the game at 1st reciever and Foley Stays at inside centre then i think it could be a very good combination.

I agree with this, Foley's running, support, secondary passer and all round skill indicate, theoretically, that he'll make a solid 12. Kind of in the Horan mould.

I was excited to see the Cooper/Foley combo on attack, worried about the defence. Now that's its been a couple of games I think it has been a fail, Foley/Cooper get in each others way, both are horrible defenders, both are horribly weak in rucks and neither can clean out at all, none should be defending in the line consistently, so the possible benefits really aren't outweighing the negatives.

I'd really think about putting Kerevi or Hodge at 12 for the EOYT. Foley would be a great bench option for both cover and impact.

 

[Sully]

I think we ditched Kerevi at 12 too early and hope the Reds use him there next year. But he's not a real 12 either but he could come close eventually. Then I'd love to see Hodge at 13 but that's probably the opposite to what most people would suggest. But I like the second ball player at 13 so that means Folau would never play there in my team.
I'd use Folau as a winger who sweeps to fullback rather than a straight fullback.

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[Viking]

Nonu didn't become one of the best until he had distribution skills.

Kerevi's distribution has been good from what I've seen. Apparently Hodge played 10 most of this career so I'd imagine he should be a good distributor too, plus we know his defence is top notch and he won't have to be switching positions, but then from what we've actually seen from Hodge at international level his distribution has been poor - hoping that is just rookie nerves though.

So there's very strong potential to have distributing and hard running 12's now. IMO the sooner they get into their preferred positions and start developing the sooner they become world-class.

 

[Viking]

I think we ditched Kerevi at 12 too early and hope the Reds use him there next year. But he's not a real 12 either but he could come close eventually. Then I'd love to see Hodge at 13 but that's probably the opposite to what most people would suggest. But I like the second ball player at 13 so that means Folau would never play there in my team.
I'd use Folau as a winger who sweeps to fullback rather than a straight fullback.

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I have a feeling Hodge's best position may be at fullback where he use his big boot to effect. DHP is pretty good but Hodge could reach his level soon plus have the point of difference of having the big clearing kick.

I really hope he/coaches pick a position and he sticks with it. Could be 12,13,15.

 

[Twoilms]

Kerevi's distribution has been good from what I've seen. Apparently Hodge played 10 most of this career so I'd imagine he should be a good distributor too, plus we know his defence is top notch and he won't have to be switching positions, but then from what we've actually seen from Hodge at international level his distribution has been poor - hoping that is just rookie nerves though.

So there's very strong potential to have distributing and hard running 12's now. IMO the sooner they get into their preferred positions and start developing the sooner they become world-class.

Not playing players in their correct positions is classic wallabies. Deans did it with O'conner etc a lot. I'm coming round to the idea that hodge should be 12. I think he'd be shit and lacks anything near the ability of our unavailable 12's but hell hes actually a 12. Foley is not.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think we ditched Kerevi at 12 too early and hope the Reds use him there next year. But he's not a real 12 either but he could come close eventually. Then I'd love to see Hodge at 13 but that's probably the opposite to what most people would suggest. But I like the second ball player at 13 so that means Folau would never play there in my team.
I'd use Folau as a winger who sweeps to fullback rather than a straight fullback.

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For me it doesn't matter a great deal which number the passer or crasher wears on their back, Nonu and Smith are a classic example of that. You can certainly make a case for a distributor to play in a wider channel.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Nonu didn't become one of the best until he had distribution skills.

Indeed. I thought he was a fairly average player until he developed better hands and also stopped looking for an option himself first and foremost. He was still a fantastic blunt instrument in the midfield, but his skills and vision improved markedly to make him a much more effective player. That said, Smith was the classy distributor in that backline.