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Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

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cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Wonder if they'll cite the Argentinian player who punched Folau after he got penalised for contact in the air with the Argentinian player in goal. Although Folau didn't have as near-death an experience as Sanchez, which was lucky for him.
I mean, for consistency and shit like that.
Sorry, it's SANZAR. ;)
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Yet another reason Cooper shouldn't be in the side - he's just a massive douche bag that manages to create unnecessary controversy.

The bloke is savagely attacked by the media no matter what he does.

You imply that he does something others don't. How much vitriol does foley cop from professional media for example.

This "massive douchebag" is also on of Aus and QLD rugby's greatest ambassadors and one of the best at engaging fans whilst also being at the centre of Aus and QLD rugby's greatest successes during his career.

List me all the great wins Quade HAS NOT played in?

Yet still have articles targeting him and with false facts. Professional journalists run articles saying he's a weak defender and foley will improve defence, despite the fact foley is statistically inferior defensively. Then articles saying that Foley's boot will be a great improvement, despite the fact that when kicking conversions (ie. When you can't decide whether to take it or not) Foley's statistics are inferior.

Don't get me wrong this isn't an attack on foley as I don't think his statistics in these facets are poor, it's just a comment how Quade will be derided and stated as a fact to be inferior by journalists regardless of what he does.

I don't think any supporter of his has felt he has been great the last 2 games either, people just take offence to the way he is singled out and viciously brought down.

Push somebody enough, they'll probably push back eventually.
 

Shelts89

Tom Lawton (22)
Wonder if they'll cite the Argentinian player who punched Folau after he got penalised for contact in the air with the Argentinian player in goal. Although Folau didn't have as near-death an experience as Sanchez, which was lucky for him.
I mean, for consistency and shit like that.
Sorry, it's SANZAR. ;)

Doubt it since it was a push not a punch ;)
 

GTPIH

Ted Thorn (20)
You'd have to think the citing commissioner has better footage of the Hooper punch because from my viewing it's the standard swinging arm when someone is being held back. If he gets suspended for that, then Habana should be rubbed out for months based on the number of punches he threw at Coles (I think) holding his leg at a maul. And throw in a few extra weeks for his almost crying whinging after the event.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Doubt it since it was a push not a punch ;)

Really? Looked like contact with a straightening arm, albeit feeble and ineffectual. Striking is striking, whether it's weak-ass or not. Can you tell the difference? But I do feel sorry for Sanchez, who clearly had an ongoing concussion affecting his judgement after being shot by a sniper just as he ran into Pocock in the first half. I mean, how unlucky is the guy?
I have no problem with Hooper being sanctioned, just the consistency, as ever, with SANZAR.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
You'd have to think the citing commissioner has better footage of the Hooper punch because from my viewing it's the standard swinging arm when someone is being held back. If he gets suspended for that, then Habana should be rubbed out for months based on the number of punches he threw at Coles (I think) holding his leg at a maul. And throw in a few extra weeks for his almost crying whinging after the event.

Not really important but pretty sure it was Cody Taylor, the replacement hooker.
 

Shelts89

Tom Lawton (22)
Really? Looked like contact with a straightening arm, albeit feeble and ineffectual. Striking is striking, whether it's weak-ass or not. Can you tell the difference? But I do feel sorry for Sanchez, who clearly had an ongoing concussion affecting his judgement after being shot by a sniper just as he ran into Pocock in the first half. I mean, how unlucky is the guy?
I have no problem with Hooper being sanctioned, just the consistency, as ever, with SANZAR.

Pushing ends up making contact with a straightening arm, but they are still different things. It was clearly a push to me, followed by something nasty in spanish. Though that last bit is a guess.

Sanchez bumping into Pocock was funny though.

As for SANZAR inconsistencies I have to admit I don't pay an awful lot of attention as an English Rugby fan, so can't really comment on that.
 

GTPIH

Ted Thorn (20)
Having now read the regulation under which Hooper was cited (Nature of Offence: 10.4 (a) Punching or striking, A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).)
, for consistency Habana also has to be cited (personally I don't think it's worth citing). But then, when has SANZAR ever been consistent when it comes to citing.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
The bloke is savagely attacked by the media no matter what he does.

You imply that he does something others don't. How much vitriol does foley cop from professional media for example.

This "massive douchebag" is also on of Aus and QLD rugby's greatest ambassadors and one of the best at engaging fans whilst also being at the centre of Aus and QLD rugby's greatest successes during his career.

List me all the great wins Quade HAS NOT played in?

Yet still have articles targeting him and with false facts. Professional journalists run articles saying he's a weak defender and foley will improve defence, despite the fact foley is statistically inferior defensively. Then articles saying that Foley's boot will be a great improvement, despite the fact that when kicking conversions (ie. When you can't decide whether to take it or not) Foley's statistics are inferior.

Don't get me wrong this isn't an attack on foley as I don't think his statistics in these facets are poor, it's just a comment how Quade will be derided and stated as a fact to be inferior by journalists regardless of what he does.

I don't think any supporter of his has felt he has been great the last 2 games either, people just take offence to the way he is singled out and viciously brought down.

Push somebody enough, they'll probably push back eventually.

It's not just the last two games, it's been the last two years...

Foley's kicking was pretty bad today, but it's a coin toss with him, Cooper and Beale - none of them are world class kickers. Other than that though, Foley had a decent game, but not a terrible one.

As for Quade and defence, his stats are a little furry because he also attempts less tackles than guys like Foley and on top of that he actively avoids contact with the ball. As I said before - at points in the game he wasn't just running sideways but BACKWARDS and away from forward support!

The most telling thing for me was that we actually looked BETTER when he was Yellow Carded (as soft as that was) and we were down to 14 men.

As for the tweet - well yeah he cops a bit, but he's a Khoder Nasser player and so it's part of the douche-central inner sanctum of Australian sport, and I reckon that's got more to do with his attitude than copping flak and needing to push back.

This is another reason I'd prefer Giteau - he just seems way more mature now and has just become so much more measured in the way he responds to his position in the Australian rugby set-up. There's a level of entitlement with Cooper (which the tweet illustrates) that isn't there at all with Giteau anymore, and from a team culture perspective it's guys like Giteau you want more than the Nasser influenced loose canons.

I'm not sure what the tweet was in response to, but it wasn't the "media" - I haven't spotted an article "attacking" him following that game, even if they may have commented on some of his poor decision making.

And no, Cooper isn't one of Australian Rugby's "greatest ambassadors" any more than Kurtley Beale or James O'Connor are. Guys like Pocock, Hooper, Folau and Genia - they're great ambassadors for our code. Cooper is not.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
What fucking attitude? Running around making social media posts sting he loves his job and is so fortunate to do it for a living? You're right. Pull your fucking head in Quade you fluffybunny.

Cooper doesn't attempt less tackles either.

Well actually yes he has. Stats so far are 8 attempts and 1 miss from 128 minutes whilst foley is 9 attempts and 4 misses from 80 minutes. Funny you claim a guy who is hidden at line outs as attempting more. Clearly he's shifted to attempt as few as possible.

The only problems witch Quade's attitude at least out in the public, is the alleged attitude people like you create in your head.

Tell me what he has actually done this year (not some bullshit speculation, something he has actually done) that shows an attitude issue?

This is clearly a case of you disliking the bloke and then clutching at any straw you can in order to justify it.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
And yeah, we looked better at around 70 minutes. It's so rare for Argentina to fall away late in a game against a tri nations team, isn't it?

That's a rhetorical question FYI, they have shown their ability to stay with the all blacks for period in games but also shown that they're behind in professional structures and systems in their nation because they haven't been able to maintain it for 80.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I follow QC (Quade Cooper) on Instagram and these are some of his more recent rugby related uploads
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918150.422279.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918170.690321.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918185.105924.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918197.894234.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918221.210762.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918236.277202.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437918262.681718.jpg


You're right. What a fucking self entitled prick!

And yes, he isn't a great ambassador. If you ignore all the great work he does with fans of the game.
 

ForceFan

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Good to get a win but should have had more points on the board.
Too many errors and too many missed tackles.
Got the points in the 2nd half with only 31% Possession and 35% Territory.

Unfortunately only time for limited commentary.

What do others see in these numbers?

Comments:
The Wallabies’ 57% Possession in the first half reduced to 31% in the second half.
The Wallabies won 54 of 58 rucks (93%). The Pumas won 84 of 89 rucks (94%).
The Forwards earned 6 Turn Overs Won from their 50 Defensive ruck involvements.
Pocock earned 3 TOW from his 16 Defensive ruck involvements (32% of the Forward’s defensive ruck involvements).
Pocock's focus was clearly on Defensive Rucks.
Backs made only 24% of Total ruck engagements, but only 13% of Defensive ruck engagements.

For people such as Marto on Fox who were suggesting that Mumm should replace Fardy at No 6 PLEASE consider the impact on ruck involvements. Fardy had the leading ruck involvements for the first 50 minutes.

Wall Rucks.png




RUCKS – 10-MINUTE BREAKDOWN

Wal 10.png


Impressive effort by the Forwards for the first 10 minutes of both halves.

Holmes and Moore below par in 1st half.
Pocock and Fardy sustained sustained rucking effort for the first 50 minutes.

Team selection in 2 weeks time will be interesting.

Best Performing Backs

The Backs with the most ruck involvement were:

Ashley-Cooper - 11 Total Rucks (Attack 6; Defense 5)
Kuridrani - 10 Total Rucks (Attack 10)
Tomane - 7 Total Rucks (Attack 6; 1 Defense)
Folau - 7 Total Rucks (Attack 7)
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Top work once again, ForceFan.

Mate, you should package all these up after the NZ game into a rucking overview for TRC and publish on the front page of the GAGR blog.

It would be an excellent piece in the lead up to the RWC!
 
K

KAOPointman

Guest
It looks bad but I have suspicion that it looks worse than what it really is because Sanchez exaggerated the fall. The same Sanchez that tried to milk a penalty by running in Pocock in the lead up to Tomane's try. I agree that Argentina not complaining might mean it wasn't that bad.
Agree....if it was note worthy....they would have used a stretcher for the poor Argie. The one that wasn't diving like a soccer girl all nite. And for a team that prides themselves on tough forwards play.....they really showed for the first time a new borderline unsportsmanlike dimension to their game. I hope that dies a quick death.
 

Bairdy

Peter Fenwicke (45)
My thoughts on the game:

Discipline was poor by the Wallabies, especially with all the off-the-ball shit (a la the Hooper strike on Sanchez when Mumm scored, the constant push-and-shoving after every Argie dive etc.). This allowed the Pumas to frequently piggyback out of their half at crucial times, and against the ABs we can't afford to be inaccurate and ill-disciplined.

Peyper really came down on the Argies hard in the penalty stakes. Glad we were on the right side of him but I'd be aggrieved if I was Argentinian. On Beale: we all know how much of a 'top' bloke he is but credit where it's due; he certainly made an impact in his short cameo. Should only be played at 15 or on a wing though. He and Mitchell are currently vying for that bench utility outside back [kicking option].

Pocock had a barnstorming game. Everyone trumpets his pilfering ability but it is his breakdown work when we are on the attack which is so valuable. He just can't be shifted. As well as his presence at defensive breakdowns which forces opposition to commit more to securing their ball.

I thought Fardy and Simmons had understated and productive games. Mumm went surprisingly well, and provides Cheika with another option at 6/lock.

Although I started coming around to the notion of a hard-running 12 before this game, I think this game all but confirmed what Bob Dwyer has been saying all along. The lateral shit with Foley and Cooper (or whoever) is easy to defend against, so I think it's time for the two play-maker experiment to end.

Oh, and our place-kicking is a huge concern.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Good post there, Bairdy, although on the 12 question To'omua provides some of both styles in being able to straighten and also make the plays. His loss (and probably from the next game too) leaves a big gap.

Hopefully he comes good. And adjusts his tackling approach slightly.
 

blindsider

Billy Sheehan (19)
It looks bad but I have suspicion that it looks worse than what it really is because Sanchez exaggerated the fall. The same Sanchez that tried to milk a penalty by running in Pocock in the lead up to Tomane's try. I agree that Argentina not complaining might mean it wasn't that bad.

Exactly. They do love the dive & trying to milk a penalty!


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jollyswagman

Ron Walden (29)
As for Quade and defence, his stats are a little furry because he also attempts less tackles than guys like Foley and on top of that he actively avoids contact with the ball. As I said before - at points in the game he wasn't just running sideways but BACKWARDS and away from forward support!

Keep regurgitating the same crap long enough champ and you are bound to have someone agree with you eventually. The "Cooper is a crap defender" is getting very bloody old and has been pretty hard to validate in recent times.

I challenge anyone who has access to last weeks game against SA to watch the passage of play immediately following QC (Quade Cooper)'s behind the back pass to TK until the the half time break, keeping a close eye on QC (Quade Cooper), and tell me that the guy isn't giving everything he has or is "hiding in defense."
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I haven't seen the game as I am overseas but have seen the replay of the 'strike'. Given the history of the SANZAR judiciary it seems to me like Hooper should plead guilty, say it was with an open hand hit to get a player clearly infringing to let him go to try and support his team mate in a try scoring situation and also potentially cite the Argentinean diving in a couple of circumstances during the match.

With a clean record he could hope for either a warning or a one week suspension.

Pleading not guilty seems like a bad idea to me because it is clear he did strike out.

I don't think he deserves a suspension though.

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