Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

[Train Without a Station]

Jesus Christ. How much do you want to infer from that post, when did I say Beale was exceptional? I'm just talking to what I imagine the thinking was behind his selection. I could be completely wrong of course, maybe he's been picked to see if he can offer something at fullback.

But if we're talking about form being down this season, we really don't have to look any further than Horwill and Genia, even Slipper's form is down on last year. Past performers are being given a chance to show what they've got - I think that's a good thing.

That was more a reference to the Douglas love.

But I still don't buy that the Foley struggled without Beale. Foley struggled because the Highlanders prevented them from playing to their strengths.

 

[Groucho]

Beale is there for game time and hopefully can play his way out of contention for the world cup.

I hope he can play his way into contention. I support the Wallabies.

 

[fatprop]

That was more a reference to the Douglas love.

But I still don't buy that the Foley struggled without Beale. Foley struggled because the Highlanders prevented them from playing to their strengths.

Yes & No, the Tahs struggled without that second playmaker.

Foley takes on the line a lot more than most 10s, with that second playmaker his work is leveraged more successfully

 

[vidiot]

The Cooper-to-60-caps plan is on track.

 

[RugbyReg]

The Cooper-to-60-caps plan is on track.

But is irrelevant if he signs a 4 year deal with the ARU.

 

[qwerty51]

Just an update:

Horwill and Genia need 1 more cap.
Quade & Palu 6.
Kepu 7.

Genia could be in trouble, might not play another Test if White does a decent job off the bench and Cheika only takes 2 in the RWC squad.

 

[A mutterer]

I fully expected Kev to lift significantly at Wallaby level this year(last year in oz, away from dysfunctional Reds, weight of the world on his shoulders lifted). Mainly because of the type of guy he is and the type of guy Chieka is. Both extremely passionate and proud blokes.. Chieka will know exactly how to get the best out of him. I think Kev will play a hugely significant part in the Wallabies RWC campaign if he doesn't get stooged for Mumm or Douglas.

I have to admit I was sceptical - not because of lack of potential, but lack of heart. At times he really looked like he was a public servant on the downhill run to pensiontown. I'm glad to have been well and proven wrong.

My.scepticism though is a direct result of too many years of 'potential', 'x factor' and a host of euphemisms for another euphemism involving houses and excrement.

Glad to see Kev back.

 

[BDA]

I don't think chek a got the backrow balance right last week especially given that we knew the boks would attack the breakdown hard, as they did last year. Imo we need to be able to dominate the breakdown where possible which means building a backrow around pocock. I like this week's backrow. Should make life tough for the argies at the breakdown. Also I love the ability to inject hooper into the game in the second half to attack some tiring defenders.

Also the non selection of Arnold is a good indication that he won't play a game this year.

 

[KOB1987]

Also the non selection of Arnold is a good indication that he won't play a game this year.

Didn't even get on the plane

 

[jollyswagman]

So is the general consensus that after a couple of seasons in poor form, all a player needs to do is to put in a solid 30 minute performance and "they are back?"

Funny how this perception varies depending on who the player in question might be.

 

[A mutterer]

No one has said back for good yet have they?

 

[BDA]

Some people (cough) on this board had actually said that Horwill should be in our best 23 at the world cup, before his 30 minutes on the weekend. That performance in my eyes solidified what I already thought about Horwill, namely that he's probably our best option in terms of a bench lock against the best sides because":-
1. He's super experienced;
2. At his best he's capable of making a decent impact at test level; and
3. his set piece work is very good.

I don't mind him falling out of the 23 for this game. We know what he offers. We might as well see what Mumm can do in the Gold jersey

 

[Hawko]

My thinking is that Cheika is really showing some smarts here. He is putting Holmes at tight head prop in place of Kepu to more have a look at Skelton's scrumming impact. If Holmes struggles then it would suggest that the problem is not the THP (Kepu or Holmes), but Skelton failing to support the prop. Also that Horwell is a better scrum lock, as his side held up against the Springbok.
As for Mumm. Better ask his dad.

This selective analysis to prove Skelton isn't up to it after seeing just 50 minutes is just selective reinforcement of prejudice against particular players.

Given that the loose head side of the scrum was in more trouble than the tight head side last week, does the selection of Slipper and Simmons mean that Cheika is giving them one last chance to prove they are up to international standard before dropping them completely? No, I thought not. How could you criticise two Queenslanders just because the scrum had problems? It had to be Kepu and Skelton's fault (with a good dose of Hooper meerkatting). And no one to my notice has suggested dropping Moore despite a very average performance in the rucks last week.

Last week's issues were all about the lack of impact of the front five in the ruck work (hence the multiple turnovers) and the poor performance of the scrum up to the third quarter. No wonder the rucks got a bit willing this week; if you needed any indication that the forwards got a spray from Cheika then Fardy's picture said it all.

Fortunately Cheika doesn't pick teams based on:

1. who they play for in Super Rugby.
2. just winning one match at a time without testing out his options for the RWC.
3. after reading the forum comments.

This team is all about looking at options for the rest of the campaign while getting a good result. My personal opinion is that the team Cheika thinks will be his best will be the one he picks for the second Bledisloe; and even then he may still be experimenting.

Cheika discovered a few things last week (or maybe he already knew but just wanted to show us):

1. Horwill is still up to it at international level.
2. Holmes is back and will be a serious contender. Sio is up to International speed too.
3. Playing flankers in the 15 metre channels like NZ do won't work unless you've got a tight five playing like NZ do.
4. Genia, Cooper, Giteau are not the magic key unless they collectively play better than they did.
5. Mitchell's still international standard.

There's probably a few others that you could add. But NOBODY played themselves into or out of the RWC final team last week. Genia probably went closest but he'll still play at least one bench game before departing for England. How they play this week and in the Bledisloe's will determine that, in company with last week's performance.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Fair team choice

Horwill I guess already proven and why left out.

Can't complain on higgers being dropped

Foley deserves to start

Interested to see how mumm performs

And Holmes deserves to start

Beale has talent so not going down anti Beale front but yes his form been down this year

Skelton still has big question Mark for me but hope he proves my doubts wrong

Need to see what mcalum offers

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I suspect this team is all about giving game time to some and experimenting with others. I like it because its still strong and will answer a lot of questions:

Beale is there for game time and hopefully can play his way out of contention for the world cup.

Mumm vs horwill or back up plan if skeleton gets left out of 23???
Foley V Cooper - the better performer will start for the AB's.

I suspect the same with either Poey V Hooper and Mumm V Horwill.

Skelton will need to lift otherwise we'd probably see a change there too.

We should know our strongest 31 squad by next week, if not definitely by the end of the Championship.

 

[galumay]

Its a nice mix up from last week, obvious reasons behind some of the selections, a sense of direction and intent that I think has been missing in selections for some time. Of course some of the arm chair slectors are outraged that either players have been picked or not picked, but thats par for the course.

This game will be no pushover, Pumas will be full of confidence having beaten us last time at home and seeing how lucky we were to win against the Boks.

Sadly I will miss the live game as I will be driving from Zürich to Copenhagen on Saturday/Sunday, but hopefully Foxsports will repeat it early in the week.

 

[Fireworks]

Media reporting on this team announcement has been woeful. I think there's a world of difference between being 'axed' or 'dropped' and being rested / rotating players in the interests of testing the waters. Obviously selections have been based more so on experimentation yet watching the news tonight I was surprised.

 

[qwerty51]

Yeah I agree. Most of the headlines I saw are about big names getting dropped. Just cringed at it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yeah BDA I've been defending Horwill all year because I've actually watched his games. He's not what he once was but offers an excellent versatile bench option.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I was happy to see Kev really step up last week and show everyone that he still has it in him. I have to confess to having my doubts this year. I'm also comfortable with him not being in the 23 for this weekend's game. I think he's done enough to suggest he'll be on the plane in September.