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Which bacon should the Wallabies be focused on bringin' home?


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Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I just can't see the Wallabies beating either NZL or RSA this year. Both teams look good in different ways. The Saffers are going through their best ever period since their reintroduction to international rugby, and the ABs always put a decent side on the field. As naza pointed out, our iRb ranking is now closer to no. 9 (Wales) than no. 1 (New Zealand).
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Ash, hard, very hard, to disagree with you. In fact the most productive _realistic_ positive goal now maybe for a real breakthrough for the Oz S15 teams next year, leveraging the new format to the hilt.

Say, 4 S15 teams in the final 6, and 2 in the final 4 (is that possible in the new format?, anyway, you know what I mean). That type of achievement would probably be a positive pre-RWC proxy for all of: player depth, senior player confidence, quite a load of 'hard' games under the Oz belt, good pre-platform for the 2011 Wallabies. I don't think that 2010 EOYTs would necessarily be as good a 2011 platform builder as an outstanding 2011 S15 outcome.

Your thoughts?

For me, the positive part for the S15 next year is that the Rebels look like they will have a competitive side without significantly weakening any existing teams. Growing some more depth without making existing teams worse is ideal for Aus rugby. I don't think it's possible to have 4 teams in the top 6, but if we have 3 teams thereabouts again this year, then it will be a good effort.

The best thing is the longer season gives more players more opportunities. Hopefully we can develop or speed up the development a Palu replacement, or another TH prop. This is the advantage that the NZers and Saffas have over us, with the strong natures of the Currie Cup and whatever the hell the NPC will be called this year (still the NPC to me) their development of players who can step into the S14 is better.

But to be honest, I don't see where we can pull another test quality lock or number 8 (or even TH prop and LH prop) from right now - we just don't have one that will be ready in 1 year. And if Pocock goes down, we're toast - but at least NZ are in a similar situation with McCaw.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
For me, the positive part for the S15 next year is that the Rebels look like they will have a competitive side without significantly weakening any existing teams. Growing some more depth without making existing teams worse is ideal for Aus rugby. I don't think it's possible to have 4 teams in the top 6, but if we have 3 teams thereabouts again this year, then it will be a good effort.

The best thing is the longer season gives more players more opportunities. Hopefully we can develop or speed up the development a Palu replacement, or another TH prop. This is the advantage that the NZers and Saffas have over us, with the strong natures of the Currie Cup and whatever the hell the NPC will be called this year (still the NPC to me) their development of players who can step into the S14 is better.

But to be honest, I don't see where we can pull another test quality lock or number 8 (or even TH prop and LH prop) from right now - we just don't have one that will be ready in 1 year. And if Pocock goes down, we're toast - but at least NZ are in a similar situation with McCaw.

Thanks Ash, your usual good insights and ideas.

It's been blindingly obvious has it not for 5+ years that Oz rugby had to do far more with deep forwards development, in all of numbers, skills, 'mongrel', etc. But far too little has been done pro-actively, we've kind of just hoped that something would turn up. Now we have Deans and the like telling the media this week that 'we're looking for more physicality..'. It's all too late to be saying that.
 
D

daz

Guest
Now we have Deans and the like telling the media this week that 'we're looking for more physicality..'.

Gee RH. I appreciate constructive criticism as much as the next bloke, but you are in serious danger of losing your objectivity by continually focusing on the negative aspects of Deans. We are all on a bit of an unknown ride at the moment and it is not all bad.

It's all too late to be saying that.

I wonder; if Deans actually delivers something special, have you almost lost the right to celebrate that success? Being proven wrong is one thing and we have all been there, but will you retract all this negativity and admit Deans had it right all along?

I'm not having a shot at you mate, but you need to turn that frown upside down! Some good stuff is happening and you seem to be missing it.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Gee RH. I appreciate constructive criticism as much as the next bloke, but you are in serious danger of losing your objectivity by continually focusing on the negative aspects of Deans. We are all on a bit of an unknown ride at the moment and it is not all bad. I wonder; if Deans actually delivers something special, have you almost lost the right to celebrate that success? Being proven wrong is one thing and we have all been there, but will you retract all this negativity and admit Deans had it right all along? I'm not having a shot at you mate, but you need to turn that frown upside down! Some good stuff is happening and you seem to be missing it.

Daz, on this particular post at least, you missed my point, or I expressed it badly. My point above was that the ARU and others should have done something long ago to deal with the the core issues we have in Oz elite forwards (vs the top teams) as the problem has, IMO, been quite glaring for many years now, way before Deans. I was expressing a view that his 2010 'call for physicality' was ironic in this very context, it's coming on too late when viewed over the longer term, and most of it is NOT his fault at all, the issue way precedes him. Bad expression on my part, but the point has merit overall IMO.

Re Deans, I have said numerous times: if I am proven wrong in these concerns, I will happily admit my errors of assessment. But proven wrong means more than winning one or two Tris games, there has to be some serious, sustained pattern of victories vs top teams, and there should be silverware this year (as the ARU CEO has himself said). The track record to date from mid-2008 is unambiguously poor vs any respected and objective benchmark for top rugby teams. We are now at 2.5 full seasons.

Please in fairness do recall, that when I first came to GAGR in early June there were many, many posters who had more or less forgiven all for late '09, and were excited about the new dawn that was about to unfold in June '10. I just saw a lot of uncritical analysis and that RD has accumulated a sort of Teflon-icon status that was not yet at all objectively earned, in Australia anyway. Precise critical evaluation of Deans seemed for some to be like an attack on the Australian flag, our hero is being besmirched!, as though people were held up more by patriotic hope and Deans' Crusaders' record, than by hard facts. As you know, I am also on my own little march to argue that expectations of the Wallabies and their elite coaches had commenced a subtle but concerning decline in recent years, and that, as a rugby patriot, really concerned me.

Finally, I have not seen any recent, updated defence of Deans' coaching record to July 2010 here that appears to me solid, and outcome and fact-based.

If you met me, you'd find a very positive person. You have seen the consistent praise and positive respect I have heaped on Link, QC (Quade Cooper) et al and the Reds. That's because of one central aspect: they delivered a fine team, won many a key, tough game in great style, pleased and dramatically increased the fan base, and delivered good results from a very poor base prior to 2010. That's all I ever want, but I think that's an entirely appropriate want in an elite sport. So, I will not withdraw or terminate my ongoing evaluation of Deans based upon results. Nor will or should you terminate your faith in him, which I respect.
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
The old saying is very true! That is when the Reds are doing poorly so are the Wallabies.
The Reds are on the rise and so will the Wallabies.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Please in fairness do recall, that when I first came to GAGR in early June there were many, many posters who had more or less forgiven all for late '09, and were excited about the new dawn that was about to unfold in June '10. I just saw a lot of uncritical analysis and that RD has accumulated a sort of Teflon-icon status that was not yet at all objectively earned, in Australia anyway. Precise critical evaluation of Deans seemed for some to be like an attack on the Australian flag, our hero is being besmirched!, as though people were held up more by patriotic hope and Deans' Crusaders' record, than by hard facts. As you know, I am also on my own little march to argue that expectations of the Wallabies and their elite coaches had commenced a subtle but concerning decline in recent years, and that, as a rugby patriot, really concerned me.

with a few notable exceptions I hope!
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
with a few notable exceptions I hope!

Langthorne, you surely deserved a credit as more than a notable exception...you have been a leading beacon!

Let's hope for Aus rugby's sake we're both wrong, Aus wins the Tris and/or BC, and we can prepare eloquent apologies. Or just move over to cricket?
 
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